Sounds like that R GRuppe jibberish to me....becoming one with the car..... is that some kind of New Age Religion....

It's like when Jackie O talks about hitting the wall with the original BB and not the replacement BB2 mind you, it becomes a zen moment....

As Freud said, "Sometimes a Porsche is just a Porsche." and dddddat dats all folks.

Sorry Zeke I'm not trying to dis you... but the Gruppe is sometimes just ludicrious with the pretentious BS they come up with....as the Scarecrow said, "If only they had a brain."

Yes

Sounds like this is also part of the yin/yang thing. Or perhaps the male/female thing so prevalent in spanish cultures. To illustrate, what about a battering ram? It has no emptiness, and gets its usefulness from its density. An empty cup is useful for its capacity to accommodate. That's nice, but it represents only one set of purposes. There is at least one other set of purposes for which the ability to accommodate is not useful.

Hmm ... battering ram ... I bet those aren't covered by zen. That's violent, zen isn't. Done.

well, remember the Shaolin monks kicked some serious butt in their day...

Part of the meaning in the poem is to illustrate the underlying nature of all things, of all structures and forms. Zen and the Tao aim to break us out of functional thinking and to see the formless nature of all things, to bring us back to the Tao, the source. Granted, Zen and the Tao are different philosophies, but the goal is the same: to bring us back to the source of all things. There are also many different versions/interpretations of the Tao De Ching, some of which are harder to understand than others.

All in all, its not a difficult philosophy to grasp. In many ways the Tao, and Zen, can be thought of in a western, God-like way. Alas:
- God creates all things, good and bad. He is the source
- All actions and creations come from Gods will
- Emotion, logic, concepts, our human bodies, and mans various creations, are without substance and purpose as they are all of Gods creations, not our own.
- Alas, our lives are best spent basking in the glow of the source of life, rather than spending our days building, thinking, arguing, feeling, killing, and doing.


Like the little stream
Making its way
Through the mossy crevices
I, too, quietly
Turn clear and transparent.
- Ryokan Taigu (1758-1831)

See? All very simple. Ah shoot, I've got to get back to work or the boss will kill me.

Eastern Philosophers follow the Tao de Ching.

Western capitalists follow the "ka Ching".......

So in the end, it's a Ching thing.....

On a more serious note...what Matt says in essence (if I understand) is that since God creates everything, then man can do nothing but "rediscover" what God has created. herefore, everything in the universe is there to be discovered, both good and bad. So, if we take the idea that stem cell research could possibly lead to the cure of some terrible ailments, didn't God put that element there to be discovered and used to man's benefit?

Just curious since this has become such a divisive issue in some circles.

First, I think the Tao suggests that we accept death as a part of life.
Second, I think the Tao also suggests that no matter what we attempt do, be it good or bad in our eyes, the cycle of life will be followed and will eventually return to balance.

Those who wish to change the world
According with their desire
Cannot succeed.

The world is shaped by the Way;
It cannot be shaped by the self.
Trying to change it, you damage it;
Trying to possess it, you lose it.


This is one of the main arguments against the Tao and Buddhism because they can be seen as inhumane. Emotion is really seen as a human creation as is seen as unimportant in the big scheme of things. Basically, it says, acknowledge it but do not act on it. Buddhism has much the same belief. Therefore, when it comes to diseases and dying and pain, the Tao doesn't have much sympathy for the involved human emotions other than to feel the pain as a human, then come back to the core understanding.


Men flow into life, and ebb into death.

Some are filled with life;
Some are empty with death;
Some hold fast to life, and thereby perish,
For life is an abstraction.

Those who are filled with life
Need not fear tigers and rhinos in the wilds,
Nor wear armour and shields in battle;
The rhinoceros finds no place in them for its horn,
The tiger no place for its claw,
The soldier no place for a weapon,
For death finds no place in them.

So does Taoism support determinism? It sounds like a fate-based belief, per se. Do I have free will? Does it matter?

Nature itself is inhumane. It does not choose sides.

Man and other creatures either learn to work their way around the limitations placed in their way by nature or perish, and must also accept the fact that, to nature, individuals do not exist.