Taoist thought for the day (again)

[nostatic]

by popular demand:

Chapter 11 of the Tao Te Ching

Thirty spokes join in one hub
In its emptiness, there is the function of a vehicle
Mix clay to create a container
In its emptiness, there is the function of a container
Cut open doors and windows to create a room
In its emptiness, there is the function of a room

Therefore, that which exists is used to create benefit
That which is empty is used to create functionality

[304065]

My Giant TCR2 has 32 spokes. My wife's Le Mond Alpe Huez has 20.

Lance Armstrong's bike only had Three.

[djmcmath]

Coming from just having studied a bunch of Paul's writing ... what's the counterpoint? Paul always pairs stuff together. For example, you're free from sin, so you don't have to do all that stuff anymore. Now, having been freed, go forth and do Good Stuff. Or ... in 1Tim, Paul says that Jesus on the one hand destroyed death and on the other hand brought life (actually makes the explicit "on hand other hand" statement, kind of neat).

He also makes the comparison of us being vessels, which I'm down with -- empty myself of the old stuff, the sinful desires and attractions and what-not -- specifically for the purpose of being filled with the things of God, the fruits of the spirit, etc.

So I'm good with being empty, but if I'm empty, what is my purpose? If I exist, what is my benefit?

Dan

[nostatic]

ahh...the Tao doesn't specify purpose. The point is that the usefulness of something is found in its emptyness. In an era where we strive to "fill up" our lives, this is a reminder that a cup is only useful when it is empty.

As a paralell, there is a zen parable about a man who went to speak with a great zen master. When the meeting began, it became obvious that the man was only interested in having the master hear how much he knew, rather than coming to study with the master. The master interrupted and asked if the man wanted some tea. He said yes, and the master began pouring...and kept pouring until tea was running over the top of the cup...and kept pouring until finally the man could contain himself no longer and said, "master, can you not see the cup is full of tea?" To which the master responded, "yes, when the cup was full it could take no more...just as you are coming here today."

So the moral is to "empty your cup" so you can continue to learn.

[Thaddeus_928]

Nostatic, You're trying too hard.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Thaddeus_928
Nostatic, You're trying too hard.

No, I'm not trying too easy.

[djmcmath]

Hmm ... ok, so what does it look like to be "empty?"

[nostatic]

Originally posted by djmcmath
Hmm ... ok, so what does it look like to be "empty?"

oh Tabs?

[djmcmath]

Actually, that was a serious question. I mean, in my church (like so many), we use a lot of silly buzzwords. Faith. Praise. Worship. Glorify. We use these words all the time, and nobody knows what they mean. I lead whole studies just trying to get people to realize what they're saying, so the words aren't just buzzwords, so they actually have some meaning.

So what does it look like to be empty? What attributes will characterize my life, my attitudes, my thoughts? What is it that makes a person empty? Is it purely a knowledge/idea/concept-type emptiness, as in a willingness to learn? I'm struggling with the idea that you'd go to all the trouble to write up a neat little poem that boils down to "Be willing to learn," I guess.


Dan

[Moneyguy1]

There are so many times when I look in vain for an empty container that I can use to temporarily store something when in the middle of a project. The ones already full are of no use to me and if I really need an empty one, then I have to dump the contents of a full one out on a newspaper. Then the container fulfills the purpose.

[lendaddy]

Dan, I was thinking the same thing

Bob, I use alot of rattle can tops, Though they were always empty, it was not their emptiness that gave them their initial pourpose. Though it did inspire their second purpose If only I could get that in poem form.

[Moses]

Originally posted by nostatic
So the moral is to "empty your cup" so you can continue to learn.

As the great spiritual leader has instructed; "You must unlearn what you have learned."

[nostatic]

Dan, this is the rub with "eastern" v. "western" ways of thinking. If I could wrap it up in a nice package and put a bow on it, it wouldn't be Taoism

It is very "western" to think, "OK, what does this mean...I need a list of things that fit this and tell he who/what/where/how." To me that is exactly *not* the point. The chapter is about understanding that there needs to be space for things to work. And that space might be in your understanding....or in a lack of *trying* to figure it out.

I'm not trying to be evasive, and I'm just a neophyte with this stuff. But if I were to write down a list of "10 attributes of being empty", that would be in direct opposition to what the chapter is saying (at least to me). Does that make sense?

That doesn't mean that you sit around and do nothing...but you might want to do that for a couple of minutes. And instead of focusing on the nice glaze job on your coffee mug, look at the emptiness before you fill it. And after you fill it, notice the hole in the handle.

You'll be glad you did

[djmcmath]

Ok, the light sort of came on. Not like "a ha!!" but more like slowly flickering to light. Just got the "you're trying too hard" joke too. Boy, now I feel kind of silly. Thanks for spelling it out for me.

FWIW, Zen never clicked for me. Every single poem had to be explained. Intuitive thought as a whole just never came together for me. (sigh) I'll keep working on it.

Dan

[Thaddeus_928]

Nostatic, you're getting colder

[Zeke]

Originally posted by djmcmath


FWIW, Zen never clicked for me. Every single poem had to be explained. Intuitive thought as a whole just never came together for me. (sigh) I'll keep working on it.

Dan

Oh, sure it did. If you enjoy your 911 a whole bunch and you just can't quite put your finger on it to describe the whole Porsche ownership and driving thing with the engine noise and all, then you just get it. No book, no school.

A sense. A mystique. An auora. A mood. All things not tangible. Essence. If you can feel all these things and not want to brag or play some role, you're there.

[dd74]

The first thing that popped into my head is that a bell is a cup until it is struck.

[djmcmath]

Good point, Zeke. Except I can't control it. I mean, I can't be an intuitive thinker when I want to be. Oh, wait, I bet that's part of the puzzle too, isn't it...

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Thaddeus_928
Nostatic, you're getting colder

well aren't you all helpful and stuff...


anywho, I says to Mabel, I says...

[tabs]

Originally posted by nostatic
oh Tabs?

Thank U for the compliment....