Does anyone find it strange...

[cowtown]

...that the DNC used the music from "A Beautiful Mind" to background the retrospective on Theresa Hines Kerrey?

It's just that...he was crazy, right? He was outspoken, confrontational, brilliant, and...crazy as a loon.

Hmmm.

[Moneyguy1]

Sometimes crazy ain't all that bad. How else can one truly see "outside the box" without allowing a crazy idea to come to the surface?

[ZAMIRZ]

Huh? When her son introduced her I heard "Simply the Best" by Tina Turner, got a good laugh outta that. IMHO the speeches thus far have been all downhill since Barack Obama's, which was awesome I might add.

[cowtown]

Yeah, Obama was very impressive. What a great speaker.

[fintstone]

There have been a couple of good speakers...and a lot of lousy ones Heinz Kerry for one). Unfortunately for the Johns, there has been no message that would attract anyone that was not already voting democrat....and in fact, may have scared a few fence-sitters away.

[Moneyguy1]

FInt..That is an interesting (but one sided) observation. Let's turn the tables on you...What has been said that would turn away "fence sitters"?

And kindly elaborate on why one should choose GWB for another four years? Is the current administration the best we can do? Are they the best and the brightest of the current crop of leaders? If so, why? What has the current administration accomplished that would not have been accomplished by some other administration, given the same set of circumstances? How would Reagan handled things? Johnson? Kennedy? Nixon? Interesting idea, wot?

Please...no jingoism..Stick to the facts. And, yes, I am actually interested, and one of those "fence sitters", although leaning in a direction I am sure you would not endorse.

The more I hear of innuendoes about the Dems and their "liberal" shortcomings, the more I think the other side has nothing to stand on. What makes the word "liberal" bad and "conservative" good? Was Lincoln a liberal or a conservative? How about Hoover? Was he a liberal or conservative? and the gentleman who followed him and had to work the country out of a depression? Liberal or Conservative?

Issues, Gentlemen...Issues....Let's talk deficit; let's talk cost of medication, let's talk loss of jobs without reducing the discussion to anecdotes and opines from FOX or CNN or CNBC......

To pharaphrase Ronnie Regan, I do not know many people who are better off today than they were four years ago. Do you? I'm not in that stratospheric income bracket that benefitted the most. I would not give a rat's patottie which party was in the White House. When I see things where "wrong is right" (as in the movie), I will vote for the individual I feel can get us back on track, whether that be Reagan, (second term), or Clinton (second term).

I am a registered independent, and I adhere to no party line. I may have some conservative leanings, and some liberal ideas as well, but I am not a brain dead slave to any single ideology. I like leaders who can admit to being human, 'fess up to their failings and move on. I find little difference in Clinton's inability to admit guilt and GWB's refusal to say he made a mistake in judgement. Both exhibit character flaws in that respect.

Granted, the group represented in this OT BB are skewed toward the upper income brackets, and therefore I would expect some bias to the right.

So, let's all jump on the bandwagon. Factually, who should vote for whom and why?

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
So, let's all jump on the bandwagon. Factually, who should vote for whom and why?

Beautifully stated!

I too, am a registered independent. I lean left on certain issues, right on others.

[Icemaster]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
So, let's all jump on the bandwagon. Factually, who should vote for whom and why?

Finally, a well stated voice of reason.

I for one, would like to thank you for slicing through the extremist BS of late.

[dmcummins]

I'm better off now than I was 4 years ago. But I can say that about any 4 year time frame going back to when I got out of college in 1980. I generaly vote Republican but not always. I to have not yet deceided who to vote for. I'm not thrilled with either choice. I'm getting where I don't trust any of the Politicians.

[RickM]

One of the FOX commentators said he thought THK was going to start singing "Don't cry for me Argentina" at the end of her speech.

That absolutely floored me.

What is a bandwagon?

[cowtown]

With respect to the Reagan speech, and discussing real issues as MoneyGuy suggests:

I actually have not heard Kerry elaborate on any stem cell research ideas or positions. It's possible I've missed it, but he's just not getting his message out.

That's what Kerry's problem is, in a nutshell. Here we are halfway through the convention, and his aides are still saying, "Just wait until you get to know him. You're going to be so impressed!"

The cynical side of me thinks he's a tapdancer, using his Senatorial skills to take both sides (or not take any side at all) of several issues, and the more reasonable side of me thinks he's just not a great politician. A strong candidate with some communications skills (Edwards, maybe Dean, certainly McCain) would be able to knock this relatively weak President right off his perch, IMO.

Finally, I am better off than I was four years ago. But the guy sitting in the White House did not have a damn thing to do with that. That "Are you better off" phrase is an empty platitude. It's a complex question demanding a yes/no answer. It's trite to say that the President's job as a macroeconomist and war commander is going to affect me to that extent over a four-year period - A couple hundred dollars in tax increases/decreases are not going to make me sit up and say I'm worse/better off now. What makes me better off is me.

[RickM]

Originally posted by cowtown

Finally, I am better off than I was four years ago. But the guy sitting in the White House did not have a damn thing to do with that. That "Are you better off" phrase is an empty platitude. It's a complex question demanding a yes/no answer. It's trite to say that the President's job as a macroeconomist and war commander is going to affect me to that extent over a four-year period -

I'm having a hard time with Clinton "creating" 20 million jobs.....then with Bush in office they diasappeared.......now the dems are saying they will create stable, lasting jobs. Why didn't they do that in the first place, while Clinton was in office?

IMO, many of the jobs created during the Clinton era were based on speculation.

[fintstone]

The biggest difference is that the conservatives tell you what they plan to do, they do it, then they tell you what they did. If they screw up, they admit it and try to fix the problem.

The liberals tell you they plan to do whatever it is that they think you want to hear, then they either do nothing, or just the opposite, then they tell you they did exactly what is was that you wanted them to do with awesume results..regardless of whether they did it or had the reported results.............Most of what they offer to do is merely an attempt to buy your vote with someone else's money.

[turbo6bar]

I seriously doubt either candidate is going to stand firm on many issues. The race is so close, neither side wants to alienate voters. Seems to me the question is accept status quo via Bush, or take a shot at the unknown with Kerry. The issues which bother me with Bush (immigration, budget, health care) are not addressed by Kerry. Well, I should say Kerry does address the above issues, but doesn't say how.

[Moneyguy1]

SO, GWB has admitted that he screwed up, or did he just find someone else to take the heat?

Again, a generally disingenuous answer.

Both parties try to find someone to blame........Human nature.

Still nothing positive......

[fintstone]

I would not expect Bush or anyone else to admit fault when he is not at fault or does not feel he is....now that is disingenuous and would only play into the hand of our enemies.

[fintstone]

Money...you are no more undecided than I am. I am not a Republican either, but you cast me in that light. You may not register as a demoncrat, but IMHO you have made it quite clear that you stand to the left of center on most issues.

[Moneyguy1]

Demoncrat..once again the lowest common denominator.

When was the last time you gave a really straight answer?

And, if I do have some "leftist" leanings, which seems to be a "bad thing", I am also a fiscal conservative.

Is liberal thinking about specific issues a "bad thing"? What social change would happen if those fearing change made all the decisions? My mind is open enough to accept the fact that change is sometimes necessary for progress, and the continual use of fear to control the public is not the way this country should be run.

Once again, attack the arguer, not the argument.

And, you are correct. I have pretty well made up my mind. Given that neither side has a top notch candidate, and given the lousy state of federal finances, I can do nothing but conclude that four more years of this could do to America what the "Cold War" did to the Soviet Union. I would rather take a chance that new thinking just might turn things around than the certainty that we cannot continue like we are.

My expertise is in finance, both public and private. There are enough armchair experts out there who think they know how it works and most of them are dead wrong.

Sorry, I started out really trying to be fair to both sides. The past few months have changed me. AZ is one of those states where the negative ads were pounded over and over and over. If a party cannot trot out the positives on occasion and has to resort to character assasination continually, it can poison one's thinking.Kerry waffles....his priorities are different than yours.. he is a liberal (gasp!!) and his wife is a liability.....Edwards is a trial lawyer (horrible!!) and unqualified to be vice president....Democrats are tax and spend.....Kerry is weak on defense.....and the beat goes on....even the release of the Kennedy space Center picture with snide captions.....That is why I said in another thread I would love to see an unbiased listing of negativity by both parties placed side by side.

Let's try sticking to the issues. They are what's important.

Demoncrat..right up there with Hitlery....cute.....

[fintstone]

Bob
I have posted many "straight answers" and only receivced much grief...so I am no longer wasting my time. If you think my comment:

IMHO you have made it quite clear that you stand to the left of center on most issues.

was attacking you, I apologise. I realize now that it really is a terrible insult. Forgive me.