JFK's Shiny New Gun .....

[araine901]

Widebody:
"GWB wants to be a dictator, so he doesn't actually have to do the shooting himself. It's all for the best, really, otherwise the taxpayers would be stuck with the bill for two prosthetic feet.

And yes, GWB did say he wanted to be a dictator:"

Was that like a joke, but not funny? If it was serious than you really should wait to post until you are back on your meds.

[Pete Pranger]

Okay, I'm sorry to be picky here, but...............

The AK style rifle uses a magazine and the M1 uses a clip. There is a difference and I'm sure you guys know this, I'm just trying to help otherwise you may look like someone who doesn't know "squat" about guns. Right Tech................

You can't currently even weld a flash suppressor on a gun meeting the other criteria (pick two - pistol grip (even a thumbhole stock), detachable magazine, foldable stock, bayonet lug or grenade launcher), but you can "permanently attach" a muzzle brake. Now, if the ATF would be so kind as to actually define the difference between the two, but that's another story.

The import ban or section 922 actually determines how many US made parts must be in a "legal" weapon.

Hey Supe, see how silly unbridled hatred for anyone is? You libs look just as silly with your "I hate Bush" nonsense. BTW, there is a HUGE difference between the two candidates on suppressing our second amendment. Don't kid yourself there.

Shuie--are you going to Knob Creek this fall? I will most likely be there, I try not to miss it.

Pete

[John Brandt]

Kerry does not like guns. Kerry has voted for every piece of gun control legislation that has ever come up.

He wants people to view him as a hunter as he carries his borrowed gun, but like everything the guy does, it's pure deception. He voted to ban viturally all centerfire ammunition, Thus rendering the vast majority of hunting rifles useless. He has also voted NINE times to ban semi automatic guns. Kerry has a 100% voting record with the Brady Campaign (formerly Handgun Control Inc.), a national gun-ban group, as well as several other gun control goups.

When he talks about the right to bear arms there are always little words like "indivdual" and "keep" that he omits.

And you can bet your bottom Dollar that if he's elected, the three Justices he puts on the court are going to be people like Seth Waxman, Clinton's Solicitor General, who famously said that the issue was "Settled that there is no personal constitutional right under the constitution to own or use a gun."

If you value your liberty, then you should not even consider voting for John Kerry

[techweenie]

Originally posted by john_cramer
Gentlemen (and Techweenie), suspend your ideologies for one moment, please, and tell me, how the grip on the firearm is a meaningful indicator of the weapon's killing power, apart from other objective criteria such as the magazine capacity.

That was never the point. The intent was to take AK 47s and Mac 10s/ Tek 9s off the street and save a few cops' lives. Because gun manufacturers can (and have) simply changed the name of a model, the intent was to write a description that worked. That it's a bit of a mess, I don't disagree. But people who could have helped write a description that worked declined to assist.

BTW, I happen to own a Mini-14 with a pistol grip and folding stock, so you can stuff the 'ideology' comments.

[jm951]

Here's a novel idea, how about locking up the crooks for once with mandatory sentences that aren't open to judicial review???

[Pete Pranger]

Originally posted by techweenie
That was never the point. The intent was to take AK 47s and Mac 10s/ Tek 9s off the street and save a few cops' lives. Because gun manufacturers can (and have) simply changed the name of a model, the intent was to write a description that worked. That it's a bit of a mess, I don't disagree. But people who could have helped write a description that worked declined to assist.

BTW, I happen to own a Mini-14 with a pistol grip and folding stock, so you can stuff the 'ideology' comments.

Talk about believing everything you read.

That was never the point. That's just what the "gun grabbers" want you to believe. They are trying to make the world "safer". Yeah right.

The truth is, that most of the weapons that are being used by criminals are obtained illegally anyway, that combined with the fact that any convicted felon can't legally own a gun make this law entirely silly.

Get rid of the criminals if you want to make things safer. The AWB is just another assault on our collective freedoms and wholly unconstitutional. Enjoy your mini-14 while you can........................

Pete

[Tishabet]

Originally posted by techweenie
That was never the point. The intent was to take AK 47s and Mac 10s/ Tek 9s off the street and save a few cops' lives. Because gun manufacturers can (and have) simply changed the name of a model, the intent was to write a description that worked. That it's a bit of a mess, I don't disagree. But people who could have helped write a description that worked declined to assist.

BTW, I happen to own a Mini-14 with a pistol grip and folding stock, so you can stuff the 'ideology' comments.

Some interesting points being discussed here. My 2 cents about the "point" of the pistol grip thing: the "point" of a law seldom reflects in its application. Case in point (boy, that "point" word is coming up a lot): I've lived in the boston area since 1984, and around about the early 90's the gun grabbers (ie Kerry) passed legislation requiring the use of trigger locks. While I disagree with forcing anyone to take those steps, I agree that responsible gun owners should be doing that anyway (I myself remove the bolt from my guns, lock or trigger lock them and store the bolts/magazines/ammo in an entirely different location from the rest of the firearm). But because the law was not specific (just as the definnition of "pistol grip" is non-specific) we ended up with....ready for this? Giant, bright orange trigger locks on the revolutionary war muskets displayed in the state house. Look out! That musket bearing man is planning a drive-by!
The pont is, no matter the intent or "point" of such legislation, we are leaving a lot open for interpretation in cases like this. 10 years from now when all monte carlo stocks are banned, the legislators will be able to say, "Look! It was in this law! The stock has characteristic that can function as a grip!"

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Pete Pranger
The truth is, that most of the weapons that are being used by criminals are obtained illegally anyway, that combined with the fact that any convicted felon can't legally own a gun make this law entirely silly.

...and so...?

How about one more broken law when you catch the bad guy who has the weapon -- stolen or not? The more convictions based on a single event, the longer the prison time for the bad guy.

Lots of cops support the AWB. Do you think they support it because they hate the Constitution, or because they just want better odds that they'll retire in one piece?

[Pete Pranger]

Originally posted by techweenie
...and so...?

How about one more broken law when you catch the bad guy who has the weapon -- stolen or not? The more convictions based on a single event, the longer the prison time for the bad guy.

Lots of cops support the AWB. Do you think they support it because they hate the Constitution, or because they just want better odds that they'll retire in one piece?

So, the point is, that even you don't believe that the AWB has ANYTHING to do with preventing crime (as you posted earlier), you just want more charges????????????? If you would effectively prosecute the offender using the laws that are currently on the books, this would be a moot point.

Lots of cops DON"T support the AWB as well. What's your point? So, in your opionion, the constitution should be secondary to law enforcements safety? Do you think that they are safer without the freedom of speech and expression too?

You think it's okay to pick and choose what rights I should be able to give up. Thanks. Why don't you check the violent crime statistics in Austrailia or Brazil now that they have effectively banned guns. Don't kid yourself here, that is what Pelosi and her kind want, the AWB is a step in the right direction for them.

The AWB is an assault on the 2nd amendment, pure and simple. You can put any justification on it that you like, but it will still be wrong. The NRA had nothing to do with this piece of legisaltion because it was a shill. It didn't even come close to solving the problems it was "supposed" to. It was an abject failure. It only serves to bring us closer to complete registration and eventual confiscation.

I have seen you post in other places on how important rights are to you and how you are offended by (percieved or not) violations of your freedom of speech and the like. Why are you so willing to give up this freedom? I don't understand.

The more you understand about the AWB, the more you will understand what it was really intended to do. It needs to sunset on Mon and it should never return.

Pete

[RickM]

Originally posted by techweenie
...and so...?

Lots of cops support the AWB. Do you think they support it because they hate the Constitution, or because they just want better odds that they'll retire in one piece?

Because they're exempt from the ban...wether on duty or not...even if retired or part time. Why wouldn't they support it.

[chibone_914]

Tech,

That's a standard 35 round magazine pictured.....

[RickM]

Here's a quote from an MD in her support of extending the ban:

"It is a health-care crisis and it is an incredibly costly health-care crisis," said Amy Sisley, an emergency room doctor at the University of Maryland Medical Center, speaking on behalf of Physicians for Social Responsibility.

She said 90 percent of spinal cord injuries in the United States are caused by gunshot wounds and noted that $1.8 billion a year is spent on spinal cord injuries."

Is this not crap?

Moses/researchers, any comment?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20040907/ts_nm/congress_guns_dc

[jm951]

BTW, the WW2 rifle, the M1, is a gas operated, internal magazine fed semi auto rifle. It holds 8 rounds in a clip that is inserted into the rifle and ejects when the 8th round is fired. There is a civilian version of the M-14, a rifle based on the M1 action, but differing in that there is no longer an internal clip, but a 20 box magazine inserted from the bottom. The parts that have the AWB folks panties in a wad is the 20 magazine, flash hider and bayonet lug. The idea of not truly defining what constitutes a "pistol" grip was what the libs were counting on passing so it could be "interpreted" to their advantage.

[concentric]

Originally posted by jm951
BTW, the WW2 rifle, the M1, is a gas operated, internal magazine fed semi auto rifle. It holds 8 rounds in a clip that is inserted into the rifle and ejects when the 8th round is fired. There is a civilian version of the M-14, a rifle based on the M1 action, but differing in that there is no longer an internal clip, but a 20 box magazine inserted from the bottom. The parts that have the AWB folks panties in a wad is the 20 magazine, flash hider and bayonet lug. The idea of not truly defining what constitutes a "pistol" grip was what the libs were counting on passing so it could be "interpreted" to their advantage.

The Springfield M1A or the Beretta BM59. Extremely nice and useful rifles.

There's also some sort of Norinco bull-**** version, too.

I want the NFA Act of 1934 repealed, followed by '68.

JCM

[jm951]

I'm VERY partial to the Springfield Armory M1A National Match. With the right ammo, it's great fun and has outstanding accuracy.

But back to the gist of the thread, has anybody on this thread thought of locking up the criminals for once instead of getting them freed on minor technicalities to commit more crimes?

[tabs]

If you boyz kew your stuff you'd know Springfield Aresnal, Winchester, H&R, Intenational Harvester all made M1 Garands during WW2...I think around 5M of them were made in all

Finding a straight WW2 Garand is tough...as most were rebuilt at one time or another.

NM M1 Garand = 2500
M1D Sniper = 2500-3000
M1C Sniper = 3000
M1 WW2 configuration = 1500

[jm951]

Tabs- I have an all matching, original International Harvester WW2 M1 stashed. If you knew your stuff about WW2 M1, you'd know that IHC is the second rarest M1, with those made by Singer (the sewing machine company) being rarest.

[nostatic]

hmm...I wonder what kind my dad's is. He's got one stashed in the house that he brought back from ww2.

[Shuie]

Pete, Im not going to the shoot this year. Have fun up there. Im sure it will be a blast

Originally posted by John Brandt
Kerry has voted for every piece of gun control legislation that has ever come up.

What, no inconsistent voting history from the Senator on this topic? Sounds like the proverbial ammo he needs to counter the flip flop accusations from the White House.

[tabs]

Problem is if he says he is pro gun control....he gets no votes...It's a losing proposition for politicians to be anti gun

I've seen quiet a few International Harvestor Garands over the years...I've never seen a Singer Garand or 1911A1.

But then again I basically have only a passing interest in them...I really am only interested in the exotic Springfield Arsenal stuff...mostly model 1903's