Worst Driver Ever: Update

[SteveStromberg]

First thing would be to take control and make her dress like a lady not a tramp. I would pull that piercing out with vice grips. Really you need to crack down Hard really Hard. Totally ground her. I see big trouble if you dont. 16.5 and Knocked up by some Grunge Rock little wimp ass punk.

I would sit her down and make her read this thread

[cstreit]

Steve,

It's a phase....

Case in point. When I was in college I had a pierced nose, navel, and BRIGHT purple hair. Wore a biker jacket and combat boots every day. I was different just like everyone else.

Now, out of college I got a nice job and am the *ahem* fine upstanding citizen you see before you today.

The "goth" and "punk" look girls such as schrup's daughter aren't really any different that the rest, just going for a different crowd. I ran with the frat's too, and frankly found that the Pom-Pom "Susie Chapstick" set that are so admired were the worst behaving most disgusting bunch of people I ever met...!

EDIT: Did have an old B&W or two... Here's after I had tamed down a bit... "Better" haircut

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by cstreit
Steve,

It's a phase....

Case in point. When I was in college I had a pierced nose, navel, and BRIGHT purple hair. Wore a biker jacket and combat boots every day. I was different just like everyone else.



(and no, I don't have digital photos!)

[Schrup]

Originally posted by SteveStromberg
First thing would be to take control and make her dress like a lady not a tramp. I would pull that piercing out with vice grips. Really you need to crack down Hard really Hard. Totally ground her. I see big trouble if you dont. 16.5 and Knocked up by some Grunge Rock little wimp ass punk.

I would sit her down and make her read this thread

Steve, I have to disagree with you. My parents were super strict with me & I totally rebelled. They made me keep my hair short back in the seventies which alienated me from most of my peers except for the stoner kids that were the only ones that would accept me the way I was. It was a mistake that cost them thousands of dollars in restitution, attorney fees, & group home board.

My daughter looks like all her friends which is more modest IMHO than the Abercrombie & Fitch crowd who wear next to nothing. She attends the Tacoma School of the Arts which is a colorful bunch of kids.

I've been with a couple of women that were raised in strict religious environments & as soon as the turned 18 they went off the deep end because they had been sheltered from the real world.

I have had many long talks with my daughter about the facts of life & we decided a couple of years ago to get her on the pill to help her with her acne problem. I don't know if she engages in sexual activities, but I do not allow it in my home. Are you suggesting that girls who dress out of style don't get pregnant?

So would you have me make my daughter dress like a grandma & pull my piercing out with Vise Grips as well as hers? It's easy to pass judgments across a keyboard, you sound like an old fuddy- duddy.

[Seahawk]

Wouldn't it be cool if children came with owners manuals, individually tailored? "Leaky relationship with your 16 year-old? Heh, replace those worn-out seals with some new Dr. Phil head gaskets. "
Oh, well. IMHO there is no one way, no sure paradigm or actuarial analysis, that can be applied to rasing daughters or sons. There may be standards that can help, but be prepared to tinker. I have two children, btw, a daughter and son, a little younger than your daughter.
I was raised by parents that I think were very fair and reasonable. One of my older sisters feels the same way. The other, however, thinks she was raised by the Manson family...same folks, same environment, absolutely opposite reaction.
I rebelled as well (my Mom called me, based on the old James Dean movie, a "Rebel without a Clue"), but what teenage in the '70 in Cali didn't? The fact that my parents never closed down the communication channels, remained firm in THEIR convictions, stayed fair and didn't waiver, helped keep me from losing complete perspective. And you can go home again.
I may noy have always liked their message, but I always respected the messengers.
I personally think you are doing great, and that your daughter is fine. The fact that the lines of communication are open is the best indicator of continued success. All the best, Paul.

[pwd72s]

Hmmm, I suppose you could always buy a term policy on her life, say $2 million or so...then present her with a fast road bike?

[Porschekid962]

When I turned 16 I got the old Honda Passport with many conditions. GPA had to be 3.2+ which wasnt too tough but if I screwed up one semester the car went away until the grades came back up. I had to wash it every weekend, not a big deal but just spending the time on it helped me to appreciate having a car at all no matter what it was. I got to drive because my high school was in downtown and my parents couldnt drive me or pick me up and i played baseball so we were their at 5am and didnt get home until 6.
The insurance i was setup on was the good student kind with a discount, couldnt afford it if I wasnt a good student. Any dings, scratches, accidents anything like that I had to pay for, thank god I didnt get any. The tickets that I got, no speeding thank god I had to pay for and pay for traffic school.

I was told it was a privelage to drive and they could take it away from me anytime they wanted if I stepped out of line etc. Thats why now, im 21, no car insurance cuz its too expensive on the jetta my parents leased ergo I ride the bus and my bike everywhere. It's nice, no paying for gas, worrying about ppl hitting me, insurance.

Hope this helps, now I am going to sell the Jetta and buy an old porsche!

[GeorgeK]

When i was her age, I was *dreaming* about a Mustang. Hell, 5.0 V8, american looks, alloy rims... (it was in Switzerland).
My father was not too fun with rules, but he raised us straight.
We had a deal: I would not have a moped or motorbike, and he would give me a car by the time I was 18 (legal age to drive here). He held his word, I got a beat up VW Polo. I had to take care of the car myself. He paid insurance (not comprhensive), and I paid for everything else. I changed my first head gasket at 19. It was a godsend that I had that 50HP car for 2 years. I Never braked. One set of pads lasted 60K miles... Then at 20 after working my ass off, I bought my first P car, a 944. In 7 years I did not put one single scratch in it. Now I have 4, and still zero scratch (that I did).

If you allow some advice from a guy that sees more or less naked people every day (I'm a radiologist): piercings yes, tattoos NOOOO! Piercings leave little/no marks when removed. Try to explain that gothic skull tattoo, or worse, svastika, when you're 50 or more, and your lawyers friends notice it at the country club. Even though it is wrong to judge based on that, everyone does.

This is not advice but: if it were my daughter, the car would be long gone in favour of a bicycle, which does wonders to the human body anyways.

[needapcar]

being young is no excuse for trashing a car. my grandma gave me her 93 corolla when i turned 16 four years ago and it was actually in better shape the day i sold it than the day i got it (put about 30k miles on it in two years) and i was just about as wild as every other kid my age.

shcrup, definitely spend alot of time teaching her to drive even if she decides to get rid of her insurance.

[84porsche]

Originally posted by Schrup
They made me keep my hair short back in the seventies which alienated me from most of my peers except for the stoner kids that were the only ones that would accept me the way I was.

Schrup, totally agree with you. I had a bowl cut almost through high school until I could drive and get my own haircut. I had glasses as big as the bottom of a wide-mouth beer bottle. I was tagged a nerd, always got beat up etc. I rebelled a little by changing my hair styling and trying everything to blend in. Damn, can't wait to see some of those guys in a reunion.

[CJFusco]

Originally posted by SteveStromberg
First thing would be to take control and make her dress like a lady not a tramp. I would pull that piercing out with vice grips. Really you need to crack down Hard really Hard. Totally ground her. I see big trouble if you dont. 16.5 and Knocked up by some Grunge Rock little wimp ass punk.

I disagree completely.I know plenty of people that were punk/grunge/hardcore/metal in HS, and the WORST thing you can do is limit their freedom to be who they want to be. If it is a phase (probably), she'll grow out of it. If it isn't, then it doesn't affect what kind of person she really is, and no harm no foul.

As long as she doesn't dress "slutty" (which she doesn't, from the look of it), I wouldn't worry.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by SteveStromberg
First thing would be to take control and make her dress like a lady not a tramp. I would pull that piercing out with vice grips. Really you need to crack down Hard really Hard. Totally ground her. I see big trouble if you dont. 16.5 and Knocked up by some Grunge Rock little wimp ass punk.

That's about the only thing Mr Stromberg has ever written with which I agree.

[djmcmath]

It's so easy to judge via keyboard. Stereotyping comes so naturally. (sigh)

One of the guys in my church is a Harley Davidson man. He comes complete with tattoos, a black bandanna, and the leather biker pants -- to Sunday morning services. You'd think, just looking at him, that he's there to find religion. In reality, he has a better grasp on theology than I do, and I feel pretty well founded. It was disappointing to me when he met the music pastor -- who treated him like you'd expect an old fuddy-duddy to treat a biker-kid. Ouch, that's Christian love for ya. (sigh)

But back to the point -- appearances are just that, appearances. Piercings which seem bizarre to Steve may be a totally normal way for Paul's daughter to express herself. Is she sleeping around? Doing drugs? Her style of dress doesn't give you any data towards those question, quite frankly, any more than her driving style does.

Personally, I applaud Paul for taking a decisive stance in raising his daughter. Firmness, fairness, and justice will set the standard. She'll be raised knowing that there is a standard, and that her parents love her enough to enforce it.

Dan


(But, oh, it would be great to have a shop manual! Troubleshooting matrix for poor academic performance; flat spot between October and November...)

[widebody911]

It was my understanding that you had to be 18+ for shops to do piercings/tattoos on you.

[Moses]

Seems to me that a reasonable goal of parenting is to launch your kids into the world with as much potential and as few limitations as possible.

Every day, each decision your child makes will help to chart the course of their lives. The car issue represents irresponsibilty in it's purest form. Paul is handling it well.

Drug use, piercing and tattoos can all serve to limit the possibilities available to a young adult. It's still a pretty conservative world out there.

[concentric]

Originally posted by Moses
Seems to me that a reasonable goal of parenting is to launch your kids into the world with as much potential and as few limitations as possible.

Every day, each decision your child makes will help to chart the course of their lives. The car issue represents irresponsibilty in it's purest form. Paul is handling it well.

Drug use, piercing and tattoos can all serve to limit the possibilities available to a young adult. It's still a pretty conservative world out there.

That may be true, but by the time she grows up (mid-20s - 30), it'll be my generation in charge and this stuff won't really matter much any more. With genetic manipulation on the near horizon, piercings are going to be on the minimal end of passe.

JCM

[smoak]

Personally I think Steve's comments were somewhat over the top. I do not think that Paul's daughter looks any different than many of the young women of this generation. I can think of several ad campaigns and several women rock stars that have a similar look. The real question is does the look equate to behavior which is not acceptable to your morals as a parent. I agree that tatoos are out for under 18, because of their permanent nature, but piercings, who cares. Women used to be tramps if they had multiple piercings in their ears. And as far as what they dress like or what color hair they have, again if it does not affect who they are inside or your morals as a parent, WHO CARES. Parents who try to over parent in these subjects can actually do much more harm than good. Love your children for who they are are on the inside, that is what really counts. The outside appearance is (absent tatoos) temporary and definately subject to change. Don't get attached to any one "style."

[Schrup]

Originally posted by widebody911
It was my understanding that you had to be 18+ for shops to do piercings/tattoos on you.

Tattoos yes, piercings, the age is sixteen with parents consent. She had some hoops to jump through before I would allow it, including getting in no trouble for an extended period of time. I do agree with Moses that appearances can cause limitations, but you can remove them with little evidence left behind.

One thing I can say with certainty is she's brutally honest, I have never caught her lying to me even when I've created situations that it would have been easier for her to lie her way out of.

She hates labels & is no Goth, if anything she's an emo kid, sometimes I can't resist to tease her about her blog (live journal). I really think it's just a phase & at least she has passed all the drug test I've given her. She is really quite modest & doesn't dress like a slut. If you want an example of that, visit an Abercrombie & Fitch store!

[Moses]

Originally posted by Schrup
Tattoos yes, piercings, the age is sixteen with parents consent. She had some hoops to jump through before I would allow it, including getting in no trouble for an extended period of time. I do agree with Moses that appearances can cause limitations, but you can remove them with little evidence left behind.

One thing I can say with certainty is she's brutally honest, I have never caught her lying to me even when I've created situations that it would have been easier for her to lie her way out of.

She hates labels & is no Goth, if anything she's an emo kid, sometimes I can't resist to tease her about her blog (live journal). I really think it's just a phase & at least she has passed all the drug test I've given her. She is really quite modest & doesn't dress like a slut. If you want an example of that, visit an Abercrombie & Fitch store!

For what it's worth, I think you're on the right track. Clearly you love your daughter and are helping her learn responsibility and accountability. The drug testing and the car crisis are all patterns of good parenting.

What you have is a strong-willed girl. (Thank yourself for that!) After the crucible of adolescence has cooled, the same willfullness that's driving you crazy now will help her immeasurably as an adult.

[mmm]

No offense, but it seems as though she doesn't give a crap about the car or have a good appreciation for what it means to be responsible in terms of using a car?

I dunno, seems like she has responsibility issues. If she's remorseful about it that's one thing, accidents happen, but it seems like perhaps she's not?