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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I have a cousin that lives in London and does business in Europe...he says the problem is that all the Europeans want to do is talk and ultimately take no action...
France, Russia and China along with various officals at the UN and in other countries profited (Food for Oil) at the expense of America... a French offical in paticular said after all in the end America will be there to clean up the mess of Sadam. That ultimately means that Americans were going to have to die as payment for French corruption....sorry we owe the French , the Russian and the Chinese nothing..
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11-04-2004, 05:03 PM
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Sports Purpose 911 Driver
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well said JP
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James Shira R Gruppe # 271 1972 911 Coupe 3.8 RS ‘nbr two’ 1972 911 Coupe 3.2 TwinPlug MFI 'Tangerina-Jolie' 1955 356 Pre A Coupe ‘old red’ 1956 356A Emory speedster build in progress |
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11-04-2004, 05:05 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
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The one thing I disagree with in the Neocon view of conducting Foreign Policy is that the USA needs to get in your face to achieve our goals... I believe our Foreign policy has been effective over the last 50 years.... that America doesn't need to show how strong we are by flexing our muscle....our adversarys and friends allready know, and we should show them the kinder gentler side while we pick their pockets clean...
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11-04-2004, 05:14 PM
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Living in Reality
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Quote:
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11-04-2004, 05:15 PM
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Sports Purpose 911 Driver
Join Date: Mar 2002
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that is not what he is saying.
what he is saying is that those other nations, were they like us and felt a moral obligation to fix a mess they played a part in (in the case of these nations they each were making money off of iraq) such as we did because we made the mess in Iraq partly by supporting SH to offset Iran during the cold war, might view any commitment to military action in a different light than a political one. were Bush as bad a man as we can logically infer you think he might be, why would he jump on a political landmine like Iraq? He did it because he has a vision for this war which is beyond the perspective of many others. What he needs to do better is sell that vision and get others to understand and hopefully follow it.
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James Shira R Gruppe # 271 1972 911 Coupe 3.8 RS ‘nbr two’ 1972 911 Coupe 3.2 TwinPlug MFI 'Tangerina-Jolie' 1955 356 Pre A Coupe ‘old red’ 1956 356A Emory speedster build in progress |
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11-04-2004, 05:24 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
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It isn't because of the OIl for Food...but our so called Allies and friends were playing us...
The mess in Irwreck is a tough one to figure...Both the military and Ambassador Bremer had called for more troops on the ground in Irwreck to secure the place before the oposition had time to reorganize...they at least seem to think that would have solved the problem.. However the administration ....with budget and manpower constraints couldn't supply them with the additional manpower. I feel that Rumsfeld, cheney lead by Wolfowitz and Pearle wanted to implement their theories of American military doctrine...Premption ...taking out states that have the potential to cause the US grave harm before they actually do. To this end Sadam was long their nemsis and in their hurry they over looked the details...and thats the understatement of the day...
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11-04-2004, 05:25 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Tom Friedman who by the way supported the war said. "That Iraq is either a failure of policy or an error in judgement."
If it is a failure of policy it means that it could be fixed...by supplying more troops to control and secure the area while we get the Irawreckie security forces up to speed. If it is a Error in Judgemnet...the place could never be fixed that the divergent ethnic groups will/would never come together. But until U tried you couldn't know which was the truth of the matter.
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11-04-2004, 05:32 PM
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Living in Reality
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omg wolfowitz was panting at the chance on the day of 9/11...and the next day...
how many times did he ask if 9/11 and iraq were tied and was told no? i wish powell, condi, and ridge would stay and wolfowitz and rumsfeld would leave. 
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11-04-2004, 05:32 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Another thin I found disturbing in wolfies thinking is the arrogance in the statement...That Iran might view the Shieties in Iraq as being a threat, due to the moral authority they would wield when they had a DEMOCRATIC form of government.'
That is really putting the horse before the cart...you gotta get to Democracy before you start thinking about the Shia being a threat to the Iranians... How to do U even know if it is possible for Iraq to become a Democracy... However wolfie in a statment as of late is more subdued and has said in effect that if Iraq has a Rominian style Democracy he will call it good..
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11-04-2004, 05:38 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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Ohhh Wolfie has been champing at the bit since the end of Gulf War 1 to take out Sadam...
Condie, Rumsfeld and Powell are said to be leaving...I really hope Bushy has been lying low about getting rid of Wolfie and crew..they have cost Bush TOOO MUCH POLITICAL CAPITAL...as I said if Bush had retained his popularity from the day after 911 how many percentage points do you think he would have won the election by...Kerry by any measure was a bad canidate and would have been a bad president...Newsweek I think is going to publish just how bad the kerry campaign was run and that would have been an indication of how bad his WH and presidency would have been.
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11-04-2004, 05:46 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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If you really look closely at Bushys presidency...he has shown that he is capable of modifying or correcting his course when something isn't working...
Bush is a determined guy, who is willing to take hits to achieve his goal...and apparently he has been convinced that his goal in Irwreck is achieveable if you slog through the mud long enough... And after the Dan Rather affair...of making up a story...one wonders how much of what the media tells us is in fact the whoel truth and not just spin..
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11-04-2004, 05:52 PM
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What he needs to do better is sell that vision and get others to understand and hopefully follow it.
Part of the problem is that (like the tax cuts, trickle down, voodoo economics), few people (outside the US) believe it will work they way Bush says. The fact that the Admin grossly underestimated the Iraqi people's response to being liberated (exacerbated by the terrorists coming out of the woodwork in the surrounding region) makes it quite hard to trust future decisions on the basis of "vision". I'll put it another way - I suspect the "vision" didn't involve several years of insurgency. It should have, but it didn't.
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11-04-2004, 05:53 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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Mothers argument to that is How could you have known Iraq would become a magnet for foreign fighters....However the boyz down at the Rand do their what if's ...and that should have bin one of them...
BTW CAM does the New Zealand and Aussie press show things are going better in Irwreck than what we receive...what we are told is the daily body count and what got blown up and how America fked up in not getting those explosives...
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11-04-2004, 05:59 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
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BTW the nature of war is fk ups and the side that makes the least number wins...
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11-04-2004, 06:07 PM
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We get most of our coverage from AP, Reuters and (in the case of my local newspaper) UK newspapers the Guardian, Telegraph and Independent (they are across the political spectrum).
The simple answer is no - it isn't reported any different. Actually, I'd suspect it is MORE pessimistic. Not much rebuilding is going on because the insurgency is taking up the resources, so I'm not sure what "good news" there is to report. Last time I read something about it, there were two groups fighting - one is extremists (often not Iraqis), the other disillusioned Iraqis with no job and no hope. The latter group was much larger based on what I read. It's a bit chicken and egg really - I can imagine the circumstance where they'd be happy but have no freakin idea how you get them there.
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11-04-2004, 06:08 PM
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Sports Purpose 911 Driver
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if they are all coming to Iraq to fight, then it affords the opportunity to confront them.
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James Shira R Gruppe # 271 1972 911 Coupe 3.8 RS ‘nbr two’ 1972 911 Coupe 3.2 TwinPlug MFI 'Tangerina-Jolie' 1955 356 Pre A Coupe ‘old red’ 1956 356A Emory speedster build in progress |
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11-04-2004, 06:11 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
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War is organized chaos..the successfull commander can make order out of the chaos which will enable him to spot the opportunitys which he can exploit.
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11-04-2004, 06:12 PM
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Living in Reality
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But the thing is that Bush I knew all along how hard it would be. Had been analyzed deeply in the past. He wrote something about it.
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11-04-2004, 06:50 PM
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Sports Purpose 911 Driver
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what?
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James Shira R Gruppe # 271 1972 911 Coupe 3.8 RS ‘nbr two’ 1972 911 Coupe 3.2 TwinPlug MFI 'Tangerina-Jolie' 1955 356 Pre A Coupe ‘old red’ 1956 356A Emory speedster build in progress |
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11-04-2004, 06:58 PM
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A Man of Wealth and Taste
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Everybody and their Brother knew that if you got rid of Sadam there would be a power vacume in the country...which the Iranians could exploit because of the Shia population in the South...So rather than risk the place going topsey turvey the coalition left Sadam in place....the only guys in the world who didn't get the idea were Wolfie and Pearle...
Thats why ole Colin powell went in and told Bushy if you break it you own it...but it musta been the hook of spreadin Democracy and Freedom that appealed to Bush when Wolf presented the idea.backed by Cheney and Rumsfeld...But when a place has never kinown Democracy let alone freedom, it is hard to accomplish..they must have thought those people would be so happy to have gotten rid of Sadam they would be like good little rag head children and dance in the street ...they just never figured on how hard it would be...and there in lays the flaw in the plan...
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11-04-2004, 09:05 PM
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1975, 1969 Porsche 911S, 911T 2.7S CIS, 2.0T ca
