It's the Electoral College, folks, no matter what's said.

A bit of a brewing scandal over voting fraud in Ohio and Florida...

http://home.comcast.net/~hugh.moore/countdown_on_voting_irregs.wmv

:D

Oh, and. ..

Would be nice to see prosecution. I'll drink to that!

It's hilarious.

When the early exit polls showed Kerry cleaning up in Ohio & Florida, Drudge immediately put up a big screaming headline about 'voter fraud' and held on to the initial reports about the Philly machines with "votes already on them" for four hours after it was explained.

Of course, if the right claims voter fraud, it's self-righteous indignation.

If the left claims voter fraud, it's whining.

Anyone who spends any time actually studying up on what went on in Ohio and Florida (instead of listening to the spinmiesters) should be pretty pissed off... 9 hour waits to vote on at least one college campus; ballot counting in secret, thousands more votes than voters in at least one precinct... and the head of the company that made the vote-counting machines used in many Ohio and Florida precincts having promised to 'deliver votes to Bush.' Still, I suspect all the chicanery may not end up changing the electoral vote outcome.

So you actually believe that "the head of the company that made the vote-counting machines used in many Ohio and Florida precincts having promised to 'deliver votes to Bush.' ". . .?

Either that is false, or the guy is so stupid, that he would not have the capacity to create & market vote-counting machines.

OR he said the absurd just to piss-off guys who want to believe.

.. or he is a Kerry supporter.

UPDATE:

I sent out some e-mails on the whole Ohio thing, and got some feedback on the below links.

http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21election.htm

http://www.publicintegrity.org/bop2004/report.aspx?aid=418

Here is some feedback on your email. Feel free to pass it to others:

1) Kerry's concession is not a legally binding abrogation of his right
to be elected. If he wins Ohio, he will become President. His
concession helped take the limelight off of any eventual recounts, but
they are still taking place.

2) Ohio's absentee ballots are allowed to arrive by mail up to Nov.12.
They must be postmarked by Election Day.

3) On Nov. 13, ten days after the election (in this case the next
business day, Monday the 15th) these absentee and the provisional
ballots will start to be counted at each precinct. The results, and
any
corrections of irregularities such as that machine near Columbus that
gave Bush an extra 4,000 votes, will be officially sent to the Counties
and thence to the Ohio Sec. of State, a Republican, who expects to
certify the election on Dec. 1. Only then can a recount be requested.

4) I spoke personally with the Ohio Democratic Party Communications
Director and a second person who is attorney for the Party. They both
assured me that each counting board for every precinct in Ohio has 2
Democrats and 2 Republicans to count the vote. There are also Party
challengers and attorney's witnessing and intervening if necessary.
The
Party is on the job, but it is very unlikely that there will be enough
Kerry votes to turn the election. The Ohio Party will call on us if
they need extra people for anything.

5) There are several inquires and vote count issues being investigated
and resolved in Florida and in New Mexico. For example, just about
every Hispanic vote out State in NM was given a provisional ballot.
Most whites were given a regular ballot.

6) The minor candidates have already stated that they will require a
recount in Ohio. By Ohio law, if it is a close election (I think 0.5%)
a recount will be automatic. If not $100K will buy it. We have the
money.

Sunday's update:

ELECTION RECOUNT LATEST DEVELOPMENTS - PROVISIONAL BALLOT COUNT BEGINS

by Samuel A. Stanson
http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21ballot.htm
NOVEMBER 14, 2004 – All sorts of things moving forward - even if the rest of the media doesn't feel much like talking about it.

First, the provisional ballots have begun, at last, to be counted in Ohio. County by county, the vast majority of the 155,000 provisional ballots are being accepted as legitimate, in percentages ranging from 75% to 90%, according to The Pain Dealer out of Cleveland.

Just to make things seem as much like Florida last time as possible, overseas ballots were still coming in up until Friday, which means they may well have been filled out and sent after the election ended.

In any case, the counting of the provisionals has begun, but rather than being the final word, this will only be the beginning, as, according to the now-combined website of Green Party candidate Cobb and Libertarian candidate Badnarik, where you can go to make a donation in support of the recount, already 1,500 people have donated. Our buddy Keith Olbermann at MSNBC reports that they have already raised about $110,000 dollars. Cobb/Badnarik say they need about $113,000 total, while Olbermann states it at about $150,000.

Whichever is more accurate, it seems they are pretty certain to get it (you can make sure by dropping them a few bucks at the site above.)

Once that recount is official, that will mean not only will we get to the bottom of the districts in which cute things like over 1000% of registered voters casting ballots occurred, but an additional 92,672 "spoiled" ballots - ballots which were made using that familiar old punch card technology, and so which may be valid votes but just have had a hanging chad issue - will be reviewed and, when appropriate, counted.

Oh yeah, and apparently it is official that New Hampshire will be doing a recount thanks to Ralph Nader. For those of you unfamiliar with why this is significant, Nader initiated a recount there as a challenge to the electronic voting apparatus, the idea being to conduct an audit in a small, inexpensive state which, if foul play or error are found, will give legitimacy to the call for a full nationwide recount wherever electronic voting was used.

And of course, John Kerry has ceded and is not involved in any of this. Right? "Lawyers from Kerry's campaign have said they want to find out about any voting irregularities in the state," The Plains Dealer article says.

And still on the horizon a massive mess to clean up in North Carolina, where the e-voting went so badly they may need to revote things for the sake of local elections.

Stay tuned...

Gotta admire your persistance...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1100531883.jpg

At this point I would call it unhealthy. But hey, live it up. Persistance is indeed a virtue.

Nothing to see here, please move along.:eek:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1100533722.jpg
Above are maps of electronic voting machine incidents reported to the EIRS. On the left are county maps of Florida and Ohio, showing the Democratic-voting counties in shades of blue proportional to the population, and on the right are maps with the machine incidents in yellow, orange, and red. Note that most Democratic-voting counties traditionally have more voters and voting machines, and thus are statistically more likely to encounter a problem. Also, electronic voting machines were primarily placed in Democratic counties.

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._Election_controversies_and_irregularitie s

So then your point is that Democrats are incapable of using ANY type of voting machine, or just the electronic type??

May I add?
http://www.raptureready.com/vkool.jpg

Zogby smells a rat..............

http://www.zogby.com/soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=1 ...
In the first scenario, I assumed 90% of Republicans and independents voted, and the remaining ballots were cast by Democrats. This explains the result in counties with optical scanning to within 5%. However, in this scenario Democratic turnout would have been only 51% in the optical scanning counties--barely exceeding half of Republican turnout. It also does not solve the enormous problems in individual counties. 7 counties in this scenario still have actual vote tallies for Bush that are at least 100% higher than predicted by the model--an extremely unlikely result.

In the second scenario I assumed that Bush had actually got 100% of the vote from Republicans and 50% from independents (versus CNN polling results which were 93% and 41% respectively). If this gave enough votes for Bush to explain the county's results, I left the amount of Democratic registered voters ballots cast for Bush as they were predicted by CNN (14% voted for Bush). If this did not explain the result, I calculated how many Democrats would have to vote for Bush.

In 41 of 52 counties, this did not explain the result and Bush must have gotten more than CNN's predicted 14% of Democratic ballots--not an unreasonable assumption by itself. However, in 21 counties more than 50% of Democratic votes would have to have defected to Bush to account for the county result--in four counties, at least 70% would have been required. These results are absurdly unlikely.

Appears to be designed to be popular in the "blue-states"

YMaybe it's because I haven't really been following this thread but, ya lost me. What does this article about Clinton's Senate Hearings have to do with this election?

Independent pollster John Zogby, whose own findings were very close to those of the NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, said, "The number for removal is up by 10 points and opposition to removal is down by 11 points. That's a big change."

"I think what could happen is that the more it plays out in the Senate, the more you can see support for removal, especially since the Senate's tone in this proceeding is so much more moderate and benign than it was in the House," Mr. Zogby said.

Earlier polls had found that a strong majority of Americans do not think that the Senate trial will change their opinions. But pollsters like Mr. Zogby believe that further exposure to the facts in the case over the next two weeks or more via television could have a stronger impact on public attitudes toward the president and the scandal.

"The average voter either isn't paying attention to this or, if they ate, they are not overwhelmed one way or the other," Mr. Zogby said. "And that does not play out in the president's favor." "The longer this drags on, I don't see it hurting the Republicans, I see it hurting the president," he said.

The pollsters agree that Mr. Clinton will get a big, if brief, bounce in his approval ratings when he gives his State of the Union address Tuesday.

"He could get as much as 10-point jump in the polls but, as always, they will erode in any number of days," Mr. Zogby said.

(1/15/1999)
- By Donald Lambro, The Washington Times

Randy

Relax recal, the link was good yesterday, it just seems to have been moved..................just one of those things.

It's happening as predicted, and as predicted no evidence in the mainstreem press touching this story............just yet that is.

• November 15, 2004 | 2:50 p.m. ET

Glibs reach their recount dough count (Keith Olbermann)
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/
SECURE UNDISCLOSED LOCATION— A presidential vote recount in Ohio seems inevitable today with the announcement from Green Party candidate David Cobb that he and the Libertarians' Michael Badnarik have raised $150,000 in donations to meet filing fees and expenses.

That fund-raising goal was set last Thursday; on Cobb's website the two parties now say they're going to try to raise an additional $100,000 for "training, mobilizing, and per diem expenses" for those "thousands" who'll be involved in the statewide effort. They're also calling for volunteers from Ohio, and elsewhere, to be the Green/Lib observers in the county-by-county process, or house out-of-state volunteers.

NOTE: Florida has certified their count but the FBI has an on going investigation all the computer glitches...............people might end up in jail for fraud. Some places (NM) have to redo local elections because things were so screwd up, stay tuned.

Wouldn't that be a novel idea (prosecution for fraud). Think the republicans will actually allow accountability?

More mainstream press exposure...........love it!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041116/ap_on_el_pr/nader_recount&cid=694&ncid=1963&sid=96378798
Nader Activists Ask for N.H. Recount
By KATHARINE WEBSTER, Associated Press Writer

CONCORD, N.H. - New Hampshire is about to become a test case for the accuracy of optical scan vote-counting machines because third-party presidential candidate Ralph Nader (news - web sites) has asked for a recount.

The request covers 11 of the state's 126 precincts that use Diebold Inc.'s Accuvote optical scanning machines to count paper ballots. Depending on the results, his campaign could ask for recounts in other states, spokesman Kevin Zeese said Monday.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041116/ap_on_el_pr/florida_slot_machines&cid=694&ncid=1963&sid=963787 98
"It's a million to one that this could happen somehow by itself," state Rep. Randy Johnson said Monday. "It's bizarre.

From NSMEO at the CR board;

You may have seen the associated press story about the precinct in Cuyahoga county that had less than 1,000 voters, and gave Bush almost 4,000 extra votes.


But that turns out to be only the tip of a very ugly iceberg. The evidence discovered by some remarkably careful sleuthing would convince any reasonable court to invalidate the entire Ohio election.


In last Tuesday's election, 29 precincts in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, reported votes cast IN EXCESS of the number of registered voters - at least 93,136 extra votes total. And the numbers are right there on the official Cuyahoga County Board of Elections website:


Bay Village - 13,710 registered voters / 18,663 ballots cast
Beachwood - 9,943 registered voters / 13,939 ballots cast
Bedford - 9,942 registered voters / 14,465 ballots cast
Bedford Heights - 8,142 registered voters / 13,512 ballots cast
Brooklyn - 8,016 registered voters / 12,303 ballots cast
Brooklyn Heights - 1,144 registered voters / 1,869 ballots cast
Chagrin Falls Village - 3,557 registered voters / 4,860 ballots cast
Cuyahoga Heights - 570 registered voters / 1,382 ballots cast
Fairview Park - 13,342 registered voters / 18,472 ballots cast
Highland Hills Village - 760 registered voters / 8,822 ballots cast
Independence - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Mayfield Village - 2,764 registered voters / 3,145 ballots cast
Middleburg Heights - 12,173 registered voters / 14,854 ballots cast
Moreland Hills Village - 2,990 registered voters / 4,616 ballots cast
North Olmstead - 25,794 registered voters / 25,887 ballots cast
Olmstead Falls - 6,538 registered voters / 7,328 ballots cast
Pepper Pike - 5,131 registered voters / 6,479 ballots cast
Rocky River - 16,600 registered voters / 20,070 ballots cast
Solon (WD6) - 2,292 registered voters / 4,300 ballots cast
South Euclid - 16,902 registered voters / 16,917 ballots cast
Strongsville (WD3) - 7,806 registered voters / 12,108 ballots cast
University Heights - 10,072 registered voters / 11,982 ballots cast
Valley View Village - 1,787 registered voters / 3,409 ballots cast
Warrensville Heights - 10,562 registered voters / 15,039 ballots cast
Woodmere Village - 558 registered voters / 8,854 ballots cast
Bedford (CSD) - 22,777 registered voters / 27,856 ballots cast
Independence (LSD) - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Orange (CSD) - 11,640 registered voters / 22,931 ballots cast
Warrensville (CSD) - 12,218 registered voters / 15,822 ballots cast


The Republicans are so BUSTED.


http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us//BOE/results/currentresults1.htm#top ...
...is the official website of the Cuyahoga county election board, providing irrefutable evidence that the vote was off by at least 93,000. Kerry lost Ohio by approximately 130,000, so this is not an insignificant figure that can be ignored, particularly when there are numerous other indications of voter fraud in Ohio and elsewhere.


I think the only possible alternative is to invalidate the entire Ohio election, if not the entire national election. I'd say the game's up.


America, it looks pretty much like you've been had.

FYI: the Ohio re-count is on, they got the money!
http://www.votecobb.org/

"The Republicans are so BUSTED."


:D :D :D :D

Live it up. Vacation man, vacation.