Well go and try and convince Wolfowitz of that....

I think Sadam represented a sore to certain people in the administration that they just couldn't resist picking at.... I wonder what the Saudi's had in mind for a plan to get rid of Sadam...in other words a better way...

I generally agree that Sadam had to go...and based upon how beautifully Afgan worked out for the US, I thought the boyz in the Administration and DOD had worked out the details and had a workable plan...But that was my mistake...in thinking that...Wolowitz plan was that we get rid of Sadam and on Monday put the civil administration back to work just like we did in France after WW2...but guess what there was NO CIVIL Administration to put back to work...cause Sadam ran the place like an organized crime family does....

Spoken like a TRUE Frenchman....problem was the Oil for Food Program and all the graft and corruption it entailed in ...and lets just leave it at saying.. in the world....I don't especially feel like pointing fingers today.

Aurel: Are you a US citizen?

No, and not trying to become one, thanks.

Aurel

Not for long with Bush hell bent on destroying it by borrowing it till its beyond broke. Hmm, just like his wildcat oil businesses....the ole go with what ya know in business trick.
The American military under Bush's orders is to make a statement that we will destroy any city that defy's us. While we waste time and precious lives on Fallujah pop.500,00 Mosul is now in revolt and more cities are following suit. The small US forces cannot contain this revolt if the whole of Iraq is in revolt. Other news organizations are reporting all of this.

Stop watching Bushs TV network Fox News. Oh, thats right if you deny it enough then it becomes the truth, the ole GOP spin trick.
Geoff

One of the problems Americans have is in thinking that we can impose our way of thinking on everybody else...NOt everybody is going to be for having a Walmart or McDonalds on every camel path....mainly that our idea of Democracy doesn't take into consideration the cultures of the countries we are trying to introduce Democracy into...freedom unfortunately to the American way of thinking is one of freedom to do it your own way and not necessarily the American way.

So, why are you here in this country?

Ohhh Geoff you bit....The deficeits are undoubtily an issue of long term concern...but again you have to ask yourself why would a guy who lives and breathes fiscal conservatism become a spendthrift...The answer has to be becuase if he didn't the US would have gone into a severe Depression after the DOT COM Bubble, the 2000 election fiasco ...911, the Enron Scandal etc...those 4 hits coming one on top of another would have caused a very severe economic downturn the likes of which we havn't seen since the 1930's...there is a theory that every 60 years or so a Great Depression hits...like the Big Quake CA is supposed to be overdue for..The proof iof my argument is the severity of the Bear Stock Market we experienced from 2000 to 2003...and now it is just begining to show some signs of sustainable strength....

Well, let us see...I work, I own a house, I am married to an american woman. Those are sufficient reasons to me, none of which require to be a US citizen. The only benefit, if any, would be voting. But since I would be a liberal, I will certainly understand if you don`t encourage me to become a citizen ;)

Aurel

But why, if this country is so bad, did you locate here? You said, emphatically, that you do not want to become a Citizen.

Ohhh Aurel....enjoying the opportunities that being in America afford you (mainly Job and house) ...now the question is could you enjoy as nice of a life style in France? Granted they are not exactly the same...

Actually Tabs, it is not so clear cut. I would certainly enjoy more vacations, a more relaxed lifestyle, see my familly more often. I would have no problem buying a house cash with the money I made here...I would not have to worry about retirement. I have been thinking about going back. I think, it is mostly laziness of changing again that keeps me here.

And Red Beard, where did I say that this country was so bad ? You assume this because I criticize its foreign policy, but that is all. Also, I located here because I got an offer that I could not refuse. It happened by accident, I had to seize the opportunity. I was not trying to emigrate to the US.

Aurel

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism - Thomas Jefferson

As I said the "Opportunity" which can enable you to go back financailly well off enough to buy a house for cash and not worry about retirement.... The American SYSTEM (way of doing things) has provided that opportunity...even if mistakes in judgement of one administration or another takes place...and it is the SYSTEM and not a paticular administration that Bin Ladenism hates...and wants to destroy..and why does he hate this FORM of System....because it challenges his beliefs in the way he thinks things should be...and he sees that as corrupting..

Thank you for the compliment, cool_chick :)

Actually, maybe in the far future, if the democtrats come back to power, and if the future looks a little better, I might consider again becoming a US citizen.
But I don`t have to worry about that for the next four years ;)

Aurel

Let's get something straight....

Because we feel this administration sucks and does not have our best interests at heart and has made really really crappy choices and has a horrid foreign policy DOES NOT MEAN WE DON'T LOVE AMERICA! Means we feel this administration SUCKS.

We LOVE America...that's the problem. We want what's best for our beloved country.

PERIOD!

Aurel, It's nuts how some people twist things......

I would be just happy with a reasonable, compromising, level-headed, less-corrupt administration.

Heaven help your husband....or wife .....if you marry....cause it would be hell living with the kind of love that runs down, denigrates, and tries to ruin everything you attempt to do.....

Oh wait...that is what a wife does.......

EXACTLY, Cool Chick ! I LOVE America too ! Why would not I ? It has given me the most fantastic opportunites...I love the system, Tabs.

Aurel

Thanks Tabs. I was slowly trying to get Aurel to come out and say this.

The only running down and denigrating I see is from the republicans, this discussion with Aurel is a PERFECT example,

...and ruining is from this administration.

Thank You.... That is exactly what I believe....Many of the correspondents on this Board and the Registry know I have NO FEAR of being ostracized and walking alone in the wilderness for my beliefs.

And BTW, I am not gay. So I would NOT take a wife!

How is this discussion with Aurel showing how Republicans are denigrating their country?

And your comment, "ruining is from this administration," is exactly the type commment I refer to. How anyone can daily make such charges (falsely I might add)in a public forum, in an attempt to ruin the credibility of their elected officials and the reputation of their country...and claim to love their country is beyond me.

Reminds me of the old saw, "you only hurt the ones you love."

I didn't think tabs was talking about denigrating the country....he said I would be denigrating to a husband because I feel this administration sucks and is ruining this country.

<b>How anyone can daily make such charges (falsely I might add)</b>

They're not false. But you refuse to accept the truth and dismiss it as false.

While your at it, accuse those.....those who read, see the info, put it all together, come up with the conclusion based on mistakes and misleads over the past 3 YEARS that this administration SUCKS... of not loving our country.

Sorry but that's a disgrace.

Well it seems to have worked .....I caught someone today anyway....and I seem to have pushed and moved the debate to where I wanted it....and got concessions. Oh well :)

I feel honored to have surrendered to your superior mastering of the debate, Great Buffeter. I am now fully reassured on the caliber of your thinking
http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/bow.gif

Aurel

One question Coolie why do you get angry about the seeming misdeeds of the Bush Administration? Why the attachment..what is it in yourself that causes that?

Did U get the same feeling from the seeming misdeeds of the Clinton administration...

I moved from simple right wing rhetoric to something far more complex....but it took that hook to engage

The anger comes from anyone who points out the failings of this administation being called such names as "anti american", "hate america" etc., stuff like that, which is so far from the truth (and I presume so far from the truth for most here).

I'm a fiercely patriotic person and have been my whole life.

IMO, the misdeeds ot the clinton administration pale in comparison. What I expect out of a leader (and what I pay his salary for) is what he does for the people and the country...

Scandalous sex things pale in comparison.

I was not happy with Clinton and N. Korea thing, however.

As a new comer Coolie...now do you see why I am a man of wealth and taste....which BTW is a reference to the Rolling Stones ...Sympathy for the Devil....and it is my very slyness that makes me the Prince of Darkness...or Agent Provocture.....and if you should doubt what I say just ask anybody who has been around here for awhile.....

huh?

BTW I am familiar with the song. And Janes Addiction came out with a fabulous version.

Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around a long long year
So many of man, soul to waste

or something like that....

Actually when someone stoops to calling you a name or labeling you it is a reflection on them and really has nothing to do with you...Once you can internalize that you can stepa round, instead of enganging in that kind of rhetoric.

So the polarization in "Off Topics" hasn't abated. :rolleyes:

You forgot the lines
When you meet me have some sympathy and taste

gee DD...did you think that after the election...the liberals would support their country, their troops, or their president any more than before? If anything they are worse...as bad losers.

Bad loosers? Its called sticking to your beliefs. Something that the right wingers appear to be a lot more wishy washy about.

For example, fiscal conservatism and keeping government out of people's personal affairs appear to be forgotten each time the right wingers take control of our nation. Right wingers fears of 'the guvmint' appear to also seriously wane each time their goons are controlling both congress and the presidency.

We radicals are a bit more concistent in our beliefs and criticisms no matter who is in power.

Yep...spilled milk and all. If I were republican I'd simply ignore the bating. But being independent in L.A. is as good as being republican. I think I get as many "WTF's the matter with you?" stares from liberal Hummer-driving mothers than any Neocon.

All I now say is, "You know what? It's done. Be mad, glad or sad."

We DO support our country
We DO support the troops
We will NOT support a president that SUCKS.

Win or lose, doesn't change the fact that the president SUCKS. He still SUCKS.

His new appointee as attorney general...another guy who SUCKS.

Spoken like a true child....