Ever wonder what it's like in Fallujah?
 

Probably not. The powers that be would like you to believe the entire city is insurgents. It's not.

If you're interested, there's a blogger in Baghdad with very good English skills.

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Baghdad Burning

Saturday, November 13, 2004

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Murder...
People in Falloojeh are being murdered. The stories coming back are horrifying. People being shot in cold blood in the streets and being buried under tons of concrete and iron... where is the world? Bury Arafat and hurry up and pay attention to what's happening in Iraq.

They say the people have nothing to eat. No produce is going into the city and the water has been cut off for days and days. Do you know what it's like to have no clean water??? People are drinking contaminated water and coming down with diarrhoea and other diseases. There are corpses in the street because no one can risk leaving their home to bury people. Families are burying children and parents in the gardens of their homes. WHERE IS EVERYONE???

Furthermore, where is Sistani? Why isn't he saying anything about the situation? When the South was being attacked, Sunni clerics everywhere decried the attacks. Where is Sistani now, when people are looking to him for some reaction? The silence is deafening.

We're not leaving the house lately. There was a total of 8 hours of electricity today and we've been using the generator sparingly because there is a mysterious fuel shortage... several explosions were heard in different places.

Things are deteriorating swiftly.

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http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

If our military said it was coming to my neighborhood, I would get the hell out.

Sucker Saddam loyalists are the ones who stayed. . . .Zarkawi told them to stay. . . .as he fled.

Well, of course, you're right. they should have all gotten into their RVs and headed off to the nearby Howard Johnsons.

Since the military cut off all power several days ago and is targeting generators via their infrared heat signatures....I suspect this guy is actually in Cleveland....hence the good english skills. Strange that he cannot spell the name of his hometown, huh?

So you are saying that they would rather risk death, than discomfort?

Island

Respectfully, there is no place for these people to go. Here in AZ, for example, if people were urged to leave the metro area and did not have a vehicle, where could they go? The desert is not the most hospitable place to be out in the open. Dehydration is a terrible death.

In addition, for some of these folks, the only thing that have is their home, and they would, like most people, try to defend it.

Every day I am grateful that I live here rather than there.

Regardless of the authenticity of the report, the situation is grim for anyone subjected to a battle zone.

Give me a break Moneyguy1. With regard to people in AZ - if they don't have enough self fortitude to do what needs to be done to get the hell out then they deserve to suffer the consequences.

That's what's wrong with our society. There are a lot of whimps out ther who look to someone else for their needs

As an example - people in FL are complaining and living in vehicles. If my house was destroyed, I would make damm sure I would at least have a tent to sleep in and if there wasn't one available at the local store, I woud travel to find one.

The younger people of this country are whipms. They have not respect for themselves, what they own or other people they come in contact with.

Just my thoughts

Steve

"A Porsche does more then just go fast in a straight line"

The OT peanut gallery imagines that every place in the world is just like their neighborhood. Or that translating from Arabic results in only one spelling... and that every piece of news not carried by Fox is linked to a plot.

Virtually all territory outside major cities in Iraq is lawless and ruled by warlords/bandits (same with Afghanistan). So residents without nearby relatives to impose on face the possibility of death whether they leave or stay home.

Really? Why do so many terminally ill people choose it as "a way to go" then?

It's so easy to thow out some form of death, point to it and say "that's terrible." But really, is it . ... in relative terms?

Myself; I would choose Dehydration over burning to death. Kind of like those who jumped out of the WTC. The thinking people can choose the lesser 'bad outcome.'

None of us get out alive. In the mean-time, when the winds of change blow, all we can do is trim our sails. I would have sailed right out of that place . . . just like Zarkawi (among others) surely did.

Storm

You are talking about an entirely different situation. I was referring to my home state as an example of the climate and environment which is similar to that in most of Iraq. I was simply stating that in a similar environment, without the advantages of vehicles, a good road system and nearby safe area to go to, people have very little chance for survival in the open. I see you are from Georgia where there are large trees and plenty of water. Come on out to the desert and try living for a week without access to shelter or water

Please read an entire comment, try to understand it before you misinterpret it. Also please note that my comments were respectful, and simply offered as another take on the situation over there.

As far as Flordia, I feel no different. Those who could or wanted to, got out. Those who stayed, took their chances, but had the opportunity to leave if that had chosen to do so. And those currently inconvenienced will, for the most part, have their homes restored. They have hope (and insurance).

Sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I hope this makes it a bit clearer.

70% of Faluja did just that... LEFT...

Tech and Money WHAY ARE YOU BOYZ SO ANTI AMERICAN?

Island: I didn't know that about dehydration and the terminally ill. Do they just refuse fluids, knowingly? Interesting stuff as usual.

I'm very confused by this thread's question: "Ever wonder what it's like in Fallujah?" Subjectively, literally, figuratively.

IMVP: Fallujah is probably the most dangerous city on the planet right now. Marines who are bent on vengeance and insurgents who are polluted with ideology. I'm certain we wouldn't know what it's like there to be a soldier and have to enter every structure in the building, expecting the worst. As well, we wouldn't know what it is like to be a resident and have our city invaded. And I don't think anyone on this board could place their thoughts in the mind of a desperate insurgent. I believe "scary" is the best way to imagine Fallujah. An urban horror story.

I'm with fint, far more likely from Detroit than Falluja or Baghdad. Probably Micheal Moore's personal blog. Oh well, it's on the internet it must be true.

Island

Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I do not. This time, I respectfully disagree. Your operative words were that dehydration is chosen by terminally ill people. The people in a war zone are not dying of some terminal illness, but are only hoping that somehow they will be spared being shot, blown to pieces or burned. Most people, in that kind of situation are not thinking of the future, they are surviving and thinking on a short term basis.

The people in the twin towers had no hope, and probably did make a rational decision. No exits, fire racing upward, no alternatives, no chance. Not the case in a war zone. There is always the chance your house will be spared, your block will not be bombed, that the attack will be called off. Living from moment to moment. A tried and true survival technique.

You BOyz all live in the Greatest Country on earth..You enjoy the fruits of generations of proud Americas labour. Your standard of living is the HIGHEST in the world ...and yet you knock the very foundations of what made this country GREAT. I doubt that any other country would be as forgiving of those who constantly criticize thier nations actons.

Depending on how you measure standard of living, we are not the greatest country in the world.

If you are talking about cheap consumer products and fuel you might be right though.

You live in the country with the most stable government and most stable currency in the world...You want for nothing in this country..

BTW..Do U boyz know what stands between a stable world, one in which ideas and commerce can travel freely and a world in chaos ....the US MILITARY..it guarntees world stability....Our troops are not out there wantonly killing innocent people..they are not even fighting for the fun of it ...they are on a mission to defend the freedoms that you boyz seem to take for granted...

You Boyz seem to think that all the things and opportunities you have in the USA come for free...well guess again...If there wasn't somebody willing to stand guard duty for you boyz to keep the bad guy away from your door....you wouldn't have the job you have, the education you have, the house you have, the car you have, the money in the bank you have, the medical care you have...you'd be luck to have running water and a crapper out in the back yard...

Thats why so many people want to come to America for the oportunities that freedom brings and to escape from the fear of a knock on the door at night...

I think that, this time, you started disagreeing with me before you read my whole post.

Certainly, "doing nothing" . . ."staying & hoping for the best" is one choice. It's the choice of many a deer caught by headlights.

But as tabs sez; 70% of Faluja did just that... LEFT...

Are these people all out dying in the desert?

They assessed the situation, made a choice. A smart choice IMO.

I couldn't (and still don't) understand why we gave so much warning. The only up-side that I can see, is that Zarkawi is on the run (and having to travel light), a few Saddam loyalist get to pursue virgins, and the beheading facilities have been found (stopped).

I suppose the bigger plus is that those who choose to AVOID conflict have left the city. . ...and will return once the dust settles.

The freedom comes from cheap oil, and the cheap oil has to be fought for nowdays. It is as simple as that, but I can detail all the steps if necessary. Nobody is trying to invade the USA, or to impose an islamic regime. For you to beleive this, Tabs, is a little disappointing from a thinker of your caliber ;)

Aurel

Osama Bin Laden had two main reasons to attack the USA: their support for Israel, and their presence in Saudi Arabia. From that, a whole fear wongering propaganda has been built up, and we now have people who truly beleive islamists want to take over the USA, along with Saddam Hussein being responsible for 9/11. This is absolutely not the case. If these people were left alone, they would leave us alone too. But the great irony is that their sand is sitting on our oil, right ?

Aurel

Then what was the WTC then....if not an invasion of sorts...in todays world an invasion can come over the internet...No freedom doesn't come from cheap oil, that just shows how cynical the Left has become...Freedom comes from standing up and not allowing an aggresor like Osama to operate....to infringe on your way of life...and Osama does hate freedom...because with freedom everybody doesn't have to march in the lock step of belief in a restrictive religion that defines everybodys role in it. With freedom you have choichs and sometimes that appears to be chaotic....especially to the narrow minded...

Freedom comes from the economy,Tabs, you know that. You are free as long as you can pay the bills. And you can pay the bills as long as you are growing your economy. And to grow the economy, you need to sell cars, move goods, drive to work, have air condtioning...all this uses oil. We are free to drive porsches because the oil we put in them is pretty darn cheap. And China is going to need lots of oil, soooo...the boss will be the one who controls the flow of oil. And, if radical islamist regimes develop in the middle east, they will be the ones who control the oil, and they won`t be resonable people to deal with. This is what is at stake. Not them invading us. Sounds pretty simple to me.

Aurel

Its called retaliation.

If you walk up to a guy and punch him in the face do not expect him to turn the other cheek or be nice about it.

Your right....and "paying the bills" means that from time to time you have to stand up and fight for yourself...to keep somone from infringing upon your rights...or should I say freedom... freedom to run a Global economy if you like...

Do you honestly think that Osama wouldn't try to dictate his moralityand religious beliefs on the world if he had a stranglehold on the supply of oil? He could bend the will of the world with a turn of the spigot...

Hmmm...some deep thinking on a Sat. morning. I tend to agree with Tabs in a transcedental sense - 9/11 was an invasion - ideologically. Through a set of actions (WTC, The Pentagon, the plane crashed in PA. before it could get to the White House), we were rocked horribly in our belief that we are immune from terrorism.

As to Aurel, physically, no, Islamics aren't going to invade the U.S. But as Tabs says, they have invaded, and currently reside in our conscience. Whether one disagrees and hates them, or feels less spite for OBL, Zarkawi and anyone else, if their objective was to send a long-term message, they've succeeded in spades.

Island, also is correct: at least half of Fallujah got out of town, along with the insurgents. They heeded the warning given by the U.S. military and news reports.

Whether or not it was too much warning depends on what one wants out of Fallujah. Complete devestation, including innocents merits less warning. Less collateral damage necessitates more warning. It's just a matter of how much destruction you want to see.

And, if the US loses the `war on terror` which I will rename the `war for oil`, for the sake of my argument, here is what will happen: unfriendly radical islamic regimes who hate the USA because of its support for Israel will develop in Iraq, Afghanistan, and will decide to sell their oil primarily to China and Europe. This will cause oil prices to rise in the US, and the dollar to collapse. Rising oil prises will cause inflation, which will grip the economy. And the debt level is such that a little slowing down of the economic growth will have catastrophic consequences. In other words, radical islamist regimes could destroy the US economy without one single terrorist blowing himself up on US soil.

Aurel

Retaliation....350 you sound just like Osama...we only did it because you did it first....grow up...

Tabs, an excellent point......

...so why has our Leadership chosen to do just the opposite, and instead use him to keep the hate alive in his followers, and fear in the west?
Personally I think that if we had sent 130,000 troops to Afghanistan we might have made alot more progress on that front. It might not have even taken 2 years, $x00 Billion, and 1000+ dead soldiers. Just my opinion, but we seem to be more intent on fanning the flames of our own agenda these days.

I hate to burst you bubble but....the USA doesn't get the majority of it's oil from the ME....China, Japan, Europe ...do get it's oil from the ME...so why in the world does the USA want to keep the economies of China, Japan and Europe running....Simple the better the Global Economy is running..growing, prospering the better the USA does...the tide raises ALL boats..or whats good for GM is good for America...

Staylo, excellent point. IF the objective was to capture OBL, it might have been productive to focuse more on Afghanistan. But you need to put the Iraq oil in the equation, and it all becomes clear what the true objectives were.

Aurel

Aurel,
Crystal clear.

Agreed, but oil is like water in the body: even if the USA gets only 15 0r 20% of its oil from the ME, the lack of these 15 or 20% can be fatal. It does not take much to affect oil prices. Look at the impact of the Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico had on the oil prices. How much oil does the USA get from the gulf of Mexico ?

Aurel

Staylo...nobody ever said our leadership was smart....they make mistakes..but remember who doesn't...

Two nations have tried to subdue Afgan with large armies..the Brits in the 19th century..theylost 2 armies to the man and the Russians and you know what happened to them...our approach to Afgan was PERFECT...perhaps they should have allocated a few mmore resources to keep more pressure on the Taliban etc

Our leadership is bound by thinking in Western terms and using Western solutions to problems...this is how our system works (Military, State Dept etc) ... we havn't been able to think around a corner....and it is our very way of doing business eg solving problems that fans the flames in the Middle East.

Oh yeah Osama could care less about the Palesteinians...he came to include their cause much later much like and afterthought he could use to bolster his cause and fan the flames of hatred for the West.

Thats why they want to open Alaska up so that we are not as dependent on ME oil...

Further the USA still has tons of oil reserves left....but it still isn't profitable to tap them...our easy oil is gone...whats left is tougher to get...

Look, here is what should have been done: Focus on Afghanistan, leave Iraq alone, and there would be no Fallujah to talk about. Let the UN inspect and contain Saddam, it worked just fine.
Give the Palestinians a State, now that Arafat is dead, it should be a piece of cake.
And finally, the $200Bn that were spent in Iraq should have gone to DOE instead of DOD. This was the smart thing to do. But I know, hinsight is always 20/20 ;)

Aurel

I think all this has or is already happening.

FWIW: I believe we should open Alaska to drilling. If we insist on driving 150 yr-old combustible technology for cheap, well, what other choice do we have...