Defending yourself in your home poll

[Isabo]

Following on from the defending yourself in your home thread http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=195504, I think we need a poll.

The scenario: You are woken up in the middle of the night by an intruder moving around downstairs when do you believe that you may morally defend yourself?

[id10t]

Chose option A, but I'd give someone about 3 seconds to get the fsck out first....

[layzee]

Yep, I wouldn't set out to kill an intruder but I'm not going to hold back for fear of a lawsuit!

[RickM]

Family in one room, dog in hallway(?), locked door and dialing 911...either land line or cell.
If the intruder decides it's worth coming through the door he can eat some 45.

[Overpaid Slacker]

I would not wait until I was physically threatened ... the presumption being that this intruder is in my residence, my only final, ultimate refuge, from which I have nowhere to retreat to in order to avoid conflict, and if s/he is there, I do not have to wait until they actually physically threaten me in order to be justified in whatever reaction I believe I need to take to defend myself, my family and my home. He's de facto made the threat by entering my home, and if I have to wait until he's actually threatened me personally, to my face (or whatever loony standard would be applied here) it could be too late for me or others.

The caste of professional 2nd-guessers will likely whine "what if he's 'just' stealing your TV and he's already on the way out the door w/ it." Two basic responses -- There's no way I "know" that that's all this guy is up to -- or even that he's alone. Second, HE created a situation that put me under extreme duress, during which time I am expected to exercise detached, dispassionate reflection on the circumstances, weigh the evidence and balance the merits?

No. I'll act as any capable creature with survival instinct would -- defend my nest/den/whatever as decisively and with as much finality as I can deliver.

"Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an upraised knife." O.W. Holmes

JP

[Moneyguy1]

If you shoot him whilehe is carrying the TV, he might drop it and break it. That would be a real crime. TV is probably worth more than the creep's life. If he puts it down gently, merely wound him. If he drops it, well you get the picture.

Bottom line for me is that there are stable, rational individuals that can handle the responsibility of owning and using firearms. There are others who cannot. Whereas I appreciate the diatribe, I can only

[Moneyguy1]

If you shoot him while he is carrying your TV, he might drop it and break it. That would be a real crime. TV is probably worth more than the creep's life. If he puts it down gently, merely wound him. If he drops it, well you get the picture.

Bottom line for me is that there are stable, rational individuals that can handle the responsibility of owning and using firearms. There are others who cannot. Whereas I appreciate the diatribes in the other thread, I can only conclude that individuals that one sided on the issue are in the second category.

This coming from a resident of the "loose law" state of Arizona.

Don't mess with us cowboys......

[Moses]

When I was 18 years old I lived with a family in Oakland, California. They had three kids.

One night I was sleeping on the couch (There was no spare bed) when I heard two gunshots in the next room. I was FROZEN. I didn't know if an intruder had shot Steve or if Steve had shot an intruder. After two seconds that seemed like eternity, I heard Steve's voice. The intruder (unarmed) was wounded, but did not die. When the police arrived, Steve calmly explained that he had three kids in the house and would not risk thier safety by waiting to see if the intruder was armed. Plus, he fired a warning shot and the intruder did not retreat. (He showed the police the bullet hole in the floor.)

After the police left we had a beer and Steve admitted sheepishly that it was the second shot that went through the floor.

[RickM]

Note to self: Shoot last round into floor or ceiling.


My reasoning is that if you go downstairs to LOOK for the intruder you simply don't know what type if situation you're going to walk into....NOT good. There are many variable sto consider...is it dark, will you alert thm when approaching, are family members scattered, is there more than one intruder?????

Past that I'd have zero problem implementing some homeowner justice.

[EdT82SC]

A. make sure they are dead before you call 911.

[Moneyguy1]

Kinda like an insurance man I had. I asked him what I should do if I hit a pedestrian. His answer:

"Back up".

[Yargk]

Originally posted by EdT82SC
A. make sure they are dead before you call 911.

Haven't people been sued by intruders and intruders have won cases? With this in mind it seems too much of a risk to let them live because we can't trust the courts to protect the victim.

Scumbag breaks into my house, they have given up the right to live. I would unload 6 rounds without hesitation or remorse. A favor done for the world.

[cegerer]

The County Prosecutor who guest taught one of my Concealed Carry classes posed nearly the identical situation to us and gave us similar options. To cut to the chase, the correct answer is you pull the trigger as soon as you feel your life is threatened. Pulling the trigger just because someone is on your property or in your house will likely result in your being charged with something and having to stand before a judge. Maybe you can explain your way out of it. Maybe not. So if you shoot without feeling your life (or someone else's life) is in jeopardy, better hope the intruder was carrying a lethal weapon or something that looked like one ...... it's the same rule for cops. And just take a look back at all the cops who are charged for durfing some scumbag. Not saying it's right, it's just the way it is.

[midwest318]

1 word ......... louieville slugger !!!

[tdatk]

BANG BANG BANG....
(silence)
"halt or I'll shoot" comes to mind
Oh ya 1 in the floor

[cegerer]

" ... if you wake up in the middle of the night to find an intruder in your house, you ARE threatened. "

What if it turns out to be a drunk neighbor who thought he locked himself out of his house and is climbing in thru your window, thinking it is his? Do you simply explain to his widow that you were threatened?

I'll give you another example that scared the living ***** out me. I was awakened from a sound sleep about 5AM one morning. Someone was trying to get into my house. I grabbed my gun and went to the door. Someone was forcibly trying to get the locked door open. This went on for several minutes while I tried to decide what to do. My wife and 8 year old daughter were in the house. Next I heard the person trying to get in the back! Then back to the front door. Eventually, I decided to quit ****** around and just open the door and get ready to fire. When I quickly opened the door, I found my 12-year old daughter standing there. She had been at a sleepover and her friend's parents had dropped her off early. Not a good situation. Believe me.

[vash]

sheesh. all this talk as prompted me to voluntarily register my pistol with california. my bro gave me a legal texas pistol, and i just realized that if i did use it for defense, it better be legal. $19, and a easy online form it will be legit.

as for defending my home, hopefully i can leave that up to the cops. i like RickM's plan. get gathered up, set up a defensive position, and let the cops come to my rescue. i dont want to kill anyone. if i had kids, i might get more proactive, and go on the offensive. hope it never happens to any of us.

my buddy shot a "perp" robbing his store in tuscon and he got arrested. that would suck.

[campbellcj]

As noted by Curt above and others, extreme caution and calmness in these situations is warranted (duh).

For instance, I recall one time in college when my (drunken idiot) roommate was 'escorted' home by the cops at o'dark-thirty. The rest of us were sound asleep. Of course he had a key but the ruckus was considerable as neither he nor the cops really knew where they were going, he was somewhat beligerant, and we lived in an upstairs apartment. Can you imagine if that "bump in the night" had resulted in a weapon aimed at the opening door? Oops...

That said, where I live now there is essentially ZERO "non-resident" car or foot traffic and so basically anybody at the door had better either be the UPS guy or the girl scouts selling cookies; otherwise they don't belong here.

[Don Ro]

Originally posted by Overpaid Slacker
I would not wait until I was physically threatened ... the presumption being that this intruder is in my residence, my only final, ultimate refuge, from which I have nowhere to retreat to in order to avoid conflict, and if s/he is there, I do not have to wait until they actually physically threaten me in order to be justified in whatever reaction I believe I need to take to defend myself, my family and my home. He's de facto made the threat by entering my home, and if I have to wait until he's actually threatened me personally, to my face (or whatever loony standard would be applied here) it could be too late for me or others.

The caste of professional 2nd-guessers will likely whine "what if he's 'just' stealing your TV and he's already on the way out the door w/ it." Two basic responses -- There's no way I "know" that that's all this guy is up to -- or even that he's alone. Second, HE created a situation that put me under extreme duress, during which time I am expected to exercise detached, dispassionate reflection on the circumstances, weigh the evidence and balance the merits?

No. I'll act as any capable creature with survival instinct would -- defend my nest/den/whatever as decisively and with as much finality as I can deliver.

"Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an upraised knife." O.W. Holmes

JP

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Well put! I like it.
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'Bought a Browning Hi-Power from an ex-LEO many yrs. back who scared me w/a story.
He heard noises downstairs in his kitchen shortly after retiring for the night, grabbed his mega-mag. something or other auto, went down to check it out. Turns out his neighbor's dog had wandered in just prior to his locking up for the night. I was casual as I listened...but then he said he'd probably not even hit a perp with anything other than a shotgun, given how shaky he was. 'Couple weeks later I bought a Mossberg 12 ga. pump "Combo." The Combo means it breaks down to 30" long w/pistol grip. It lives under a towel next to my bed, fully loaded w/safety on.
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I've been awakened at night/early morning by what I thought were sounds of perp/s...and have been frozen stiff for what seemed like minutes. Then I jerk myself up and gather said heater 'n flash light. I must say, that I'd hate to suffer the judicial consequences of killing some psychologically impoverished freak, but my survival instincts would probably have me do it. I'd take my chances.
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BTW, 'am visiting here from the Pelican R1100S forum. You guys have good discussions over here.
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Merry Christmas, all. You secularists, too.