Stuart: Connecticut is my home state - can be very nice, specally arond the southeast shoreline (my old home). I agree, NO can be a pit unless you have an expense account and a reason to confrount demons on an hourly basis. As far as Dallas proper - about the best people around, great homes at low prices, the women are plenty hot but it is ugly country for sure.

The "rapture inducing, god bothering, flat earth X-tian nutbags" - well heck Stuart who wouldn't have a problem with them? In all given fairness they represent a very very small population.

But what about this - a fair young lass comes up to you and asks if you can be sure you will go the heaven when you die. She is non-confrountational. She is maybe 14 or 15, trys real hard at school. Goes to bible study everyday. Never swears, drinks, smokes, cuss's, and tries ger best to be a really good person by volenteering at the homeless shelter, at nursing homes and also helps teach kids how to read and understand math. Her life for the most part is dedicated to helping others and trying her best to be a good Christian. Here is the sticky part - her religion dictates that she has to "spread the word of the Lord".

Compare her to the other 14 or 15 year old girls. Not sure if you have a daughter but if one of mine behaved like that I would count my blessings. But lets face it - she is a rapture inducing, god bothering, flat earth X-tian nutbag by all acounts.

Stu, I've gotta tell you, I agree -- people who believe in flat-earth are silly, not to mention rare. My only gripe is that you're lumping flat-earthers and nutbags in with all Christians. To quote from another thread, that's like trying to characterize all Porsches by the 924. Or, more accurately, that's like trying to characterize all Porsches by a Yugo.

On a slightly different note, I wanted to write to you and ask, offline, what it was that had gotten you so spun up about these "god-botherers," but you won't allow contact from forum members. I guess I'll ask the question right out in front of everybody, then: you see, I'd like to respect you -- when you're not blasting hateful posts about my beliefs, you seem like a nice enough guy. You come across as logical and reasonable, and a decent person. I'm sure that behind that hateful facade there's a guy who was beaten with a Bible by some ********* who claimed to be a Christian, but I really would like to know your story. If you'd rather contact me offline, I do accept PM's from Pelicans.


Dan

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1106761026.gif

one more

Methinks NOT! While I am the forum moderator, I believe I still have a right to my own opinion and to express it here, as long as it doesn't violate forum rules, and as long as I can provide fair moderation of the content of these threads.

That said: your posts are both objectionable and in violation of forum guidelines. (No flamming allowed. Absolutely no...objectionable...material allowed. Treat each other with respect.) I suggest that you ease up a bit with your 'Christian nutbag' slams. It is offensive and not respectful of others here.

If you continue such posting, you will be banned. There is no reason for your degrading comments.

Regards,
-Z-man, OT Forum Moderator.

Only in my more lucid moments. Which is why I find your views to be utterly illogical and unreasonable. Moreover, its time that logic and reason, or the "Reality Based" communities, as they have become known in the US, started to take it up to the "Faith Based" communities. The politically correct Realists have been swallowing dogmatic rubbish in the name of tolerance for too long. And now we have policy being influenced and even designed by idealogues who have only a tenous grasp on reality. Its time for some pushback.

My remarks are not restricted to a particular faith.

When all is said and done, you cannot offer an iota of support for your beliefs without referring to the good book. And the good book, as we know it, was in effect written by Wycliffe, Tyndall, and Coverdale in the 1500's.

Z-Man. I call you on your objectivity. You cannot be both umpire and participant. Ban away, you will prove my point. There is hundreds of years of history of idealogues attempting to silence critics. Burning at the stake, anyone? A stoning, perhaps? Or is it that your faith is insuffucient to withstand some heat? Got you thinking, have I?

When you show me proof of what you say you believe, I will offer you a full and complete apology. Until such, I retain complete faith in my Pink Unicorns. LOL.

stuart: I am no umpire, just a moderator - ie: someone who makes sure everyone plays by the forum rules.

I do not fully understand your last post, but no matter - just keep it clean.

Thank you,
-Z-man.

Ban Him! Ban Him! Ban Him!

No wait:

Cricify Him! Crucify Him! Crucify Him!

http://www.buffalobeast.com/66/50mostLoathsome2004.htm

Victor, pay special attention to number 3 in this list of America's Most Loathsome People. Personally, I think Toby Keith deserve much better. At least 10. He was robbed.

Stu, thanks for the reply. I'm not going to argue with you -- I know you too well to go there. What I'm interested in isn't your final position, but rather how you got there. You've given me a set of pretty logical reasons for your stance -- and I can understand that. The part I'm really interested in, though, is not so much _where_you_are_, but how you got to _where_you_are.

I'm trying to give you the respect that I'd give to anyone else -- referring to my views as "illogical and unreasonable," or as "dogmatic rubbish" isn't helping me out any. I'd like to have a respectful conversation with a fellow human being. If you don't want to talk, then I'll let it go.

Dan

Gosh, do you actually enjoy this depressing kinda stuff? Sheesh, talk about hate mongers. Laura Bush? For Pete's sake, she's one of the most elegant first ladies we've had in a long time. And I thought the Middle East had the market cornered on hate...

We just need to get you infront of more people if you are serious about making that list in '05. I know someone in marketing........

Here's a goodie on the America's most hated list:

18. Mel Gibson
Crimes: As with any religious nut, expects people to take his delusional bull**** seriously. Is obsessed with pain and suffering, as can be observed in the numerous Hulk Hogan style “now I’m really mad” scenes in nearly all of his movies, in which he endures medically impossible levels of bodily punishment before rising to vanquish his cartoonish foes. This is such a routine motif in Gibson’s work that we half expected Jesus to jump off the cross and start kicking Jewish ass in The Passion of the Christ. More historically revisionist than Oliver Stone.

Smoking Gun: Shot about 11 times in the climax of Lethal Weapon II, yet still saunters off with his partner as the credits roll, apparently not in need of medical attention.

Punishment: Neurodegenerative illness that could have been cured through stem cell research.

Maybe in their actions they differ but in their single minded beliefs they are all alike ie., It's my God or no God and those that don't worship my God and attone for your sins will fry in Hell.... When my younger brother passed away I had a hard time getting his personal property released in NY so I was advised to go through NJ state court systems and get a property release order, which I did. I forget exactly the womans title but she was a state attorney who granted me an appointment, she listened to the whole story of circumstance and agreed to give me power of attorney of his estate and next of kin status for personal effects release. while she was doing the paperwork she had the balls to look at me and say "Well you know, people who take their own lives go to hell, I'm not sure if I totally agree if there are extenuating circumstances so your brother might be ok!"
I wanted to tell her what an @sshole she was but I really needed the papers so as to be able to take some belongings home along with his ashes for my parents. I think I can safely say that any religion that excludes you for certain behaviours or actions is a farce, also, administrators of these so-called religions seem to be the worst offenders, child molesters, sex offenders, closet homosexuals, adulterers, vice users, embezelers... the list goes on... am I to presume they will not fry because they worship the right God?, were discreet enough or had a get into heaven free card?.... I almost feel sorry for the genuine followers being duped by these hypocrits.

For your persusal, Shadowfax.


http://207.44.245.159/article7477.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Remember James Watt, President Reagan's first secretary of the Interior? My favorite online environmental journal, the ever-engaging Grist, reminded us recently of how James Watt told the U.S. Congress that protecting natural resources was unimportant in light of the imminent return of Jesus Christ. In public testimony he said, "after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back."

Beltway elites snickered. The press corps didn't know what he was talking about. But James Watt was serious. So were his compatriots out across the country. They are the people who believe the bible is literally true – one-third of the American electorate, if a recent Gallup poll is accurate. In this past election several million good and decent citizens went to the polls believing in the rapture index. That's right – the rapture index. Google it and you will find that the best-selling books in America today are the 12 volumes of the left-behind series written by the Christian fundamentalist and religious right warrior, Timothy LaHaye. These true believers subscribe to a fantastical theology concocted in the 19th century by a couple of immigrant preachers who took disparate passages from the Bible and wove them into a narrative that has captivated the imagination of millions of Americans.

Stuart - I know you have a lot to read but I am interested in your reply to my question concerning the 15yr old and also djmcmath's question.

Stu, you've once again directed attention away from yourself to an article that paints all of the "religious right" as believing the same set of beliefs. That would be like me claiming that anyone who doesn't believe the Bible must believe in Purple Unicorns, or that because I once knew a guy who believed in Purple Unicorns who was a child molester, that all followers of the Church of Purple Unicorns are child molesters.

First: please understand that we don't all agree with the beliefs of Tim LaHaye. Some of us, in fact (brace yourself) haven't even bothered to read his books, as many of the "religious right" that I know have described them as "little more than soap operas in writing." He's taken one particular interpretation of a fantastically controversial text and embellished upon it to the point where it's hardly recognizable.

Second: please quit misdirecting away from yourself. I fully recognize that various people throughout history -- and still today -- claim the name of Christ on stupid ideas. Technically speaking, there's nothing to stop these people from claiming the name of Cthulthu or The Goddess on their ideas, either -- it's just that those deities are generally less popular. I'm just not really interested in more of the same stuff. Can we talk about you? Aside from your venomous posts here at Pelican, I don't know you from Adam ... or from an arbitrarily colored Unicorn, for that matter. :)

Dan

LubeMaster
Christians do not have a monopoly on doing good. It is the height of sanctimonious arrogance to believe that they do. In fact, one could argue, the Christian in your parable is acting out of pure self interest, that is, ensuring her place in her heaven out of fear of being banished to hell. However, she is 15 yo girl, at some point she may develop a capacity for rational independent thought and perhaps, one day, go on to become a moderator on a web board.

That said, the Christian philosophy doesn’t have everything wrong- Do unto others, love one another, blessed are the peacemakers, thou shalt not kill, not steal, treat the poor fairly, be careful when making a roof to ensure that no one falls off the edge, …and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Etc etc. .

In fact similar mantras are present in every religion, including Islam, and form the basis of social order. Dunno about the roofing advice. If only we saw more Christianity in Christians, eh?

Absence of a belief in god does not preclude a belief in humanity.

Stuart

Stuart - I never said they had the mkt cornered on being good.
Lets be pragmatic here - what if that teenie bopper contunues her "Xtian" ways, and say she becomes a sheep in a larger fold. So what! She is being a good person and serving her lord. That is noble not selfish - provided she contunes down the path of non-violent mission work. The problem comes when folks bare the arms for the religious cause - but that is only an excuss for violence not a reason.

sanctimonious arrogance - hmmm, I rather like that - I shall steal it.

Just so, Shadowfax. The equal opportunity rationalist doesnt care which deity you believe in because none of them exist.

The ability to suspend disbelief is a talent that some simply do not have. So faced with this conundrum, the only logical position for us to take in to regard the consideration of any all powerful (or even semi powerful) deity in one's life- is that this amounts to a simple abrogation of personal responsibility.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

Stuart