RANT! don't read.

[mikester]

Okay...so I made some time this afternoon to call about two things to two governement agencies.

First - my local Tax office because they sent me a property tax bill they shouldn't have. That was a little frustrating because I had to simply wait on the line and listen to the recording 5 times without inputting anything to get to a RECORDING that would tell me a number to call and get a person. I hate phone menus more than anything in the world I think....SO I finally get that number and call and I am instantly transferred to a busy signal. Great, I call back and get someone else and she answers my question just fine and I'm done. GReat - half hour tops on that one I can handle it but it wasn't altogether pleasant.

I hate recordings.

Recently I got a traffic ticket in San Francisco and I live in LA. So...now I have to take care of it over that distance. So I need to call someone up there and ask them a few questions ; I've paid the fine online and indicated that I want traffic school. Then I get something in the mail saying I have to appear in the end to finish it up or I end up with the point. Crap...I don't want to appear because that means I have to go to SF and I don't want to. So... I head to the web site to look for a phone number and I find a few - they all go to recordings that don't go to people and can't help me with my questions. I spent a good hour looking and can't find a damn helpful number and the "contact us" link goes to a web form. So I put my complaint in there and said I want to talk to a PERSON not a recording or to anyone via email and gues what...it bounced back to me as an invalid email! The automated ticket help line has you put in the citation number and my citation has a "Z" and an "S" in it and in the menu those are not options to input. Freaking great...

So now I'm SOL apparently because there is no way to contact anyone at the traffic courts to get information regarding anything.

I hate San Francisco.

[Superman]

I've had pretty good luck reaching court clerks in our local jurisdictions, including Seattle, but then we're not California. And as you know, I'm somewhat sympathetic to government agencies. Somewhat. Automated service is necessary to government offices that have fallen victim to conservative legislators whose constituents HATE gubmint. Those legislators (you can tell who they are because they have an "R" next to their names. I think it should be an "A" for Anarchists) voted, perhaps several times, to cut the budgets of those offices. So, this is what you get.

In the government office I managed, if we did not have automated lines, we would have answered the phones with real people and probably would have just about had time to handle all those calls. But we would not have had the additional time to process the 70,000 annual forms that were necessary to pay contractors on public works. So, the contractors would get all their questions answered cheerfully and accurately by a warm human being. They just wouldn't have gotten paid for their construction services.

[Superman]

Oh, and by the way, here's something that would be comical if it weren't so disgusting. You'll see what I mean.

I went to a Senate hearing this morning and the Klingons voted consisten with all my expectations. And perhps some of you would be proud of them. You be the judge.

One example was a proposal to create a $10 annual fee for Minor Work Permits. Minor Work Permits are currently necessary to employe persons under the age of 18, and can be obtained ust by clicking a box when you get your Master Business License. No charge. Well, minors are not as smart as we are, and they think they are invincible. So, it's just not okay for them to operate certain kinds of equipment. Under state or even federal law. They just get hurt. Well, employers expose them to these dangers anyway. Go figure.

And they get hurt and killed. Hmmmmm.... Today we heard testimony from teens who have been paralyzed, lost limbs, etc. Some have died. Of course, we didn't hear from them directly today, but you know what I mean. So, our labor department wants a modest bit of funding to review and scruninize these permits. In order to assist in protecting businesses (and....oh yeah, teens) from these tragedies.

And then, some business representatives had the beans to sit at a testimony table and oppose this legislation. The charge would be $10 per year. Not per minor. Per business location, per year. Yes, we hears sob stories about how this fee would cause firms to go out of business. We heard how this would curtail important employment opportunities and the critical work ethic they instill in our young people. We heard businesses say, point blank, that this $10 fee would cause them to stop employing minors (who work cheap, by the way).

We heard pointed questions from ("R") senators who were apparently of the same ilk. (and from the same agriculture-based communities that employ thousands of brown-faced teens who should be in school, but don't speak english but they have small, dexterous hands).

Okay, I'm going to quit now....but howz taht for a rant?

[Moneyguy1]

Not all but some recorded menus react with an actual person IF you whack the # key about 6 times.

[red-beard]

I was on hold with Microsoft once, and the on hold music was:

"Climb every mountain, cross every stream"

It was so appropriate....

Supe: So Republicans are the cause of automated phone menus?

[Superman]

Yes, Red Beard. And for the deaths and dismemberments of children. No, I'm not a fruitcake. Yes, I'm kinda kidding. But really, would you have the guts to lie on an official legislative hearing record by saying you cannot afford the $10 it will take to employ cheap child labor, so as to prevent the department from having the resources to scrutinize where and how children are getting killed and maimed in the workplace? I think not.

And about the phone thing. If liberals ran this place, we'd have enough staff so that the service level from public agencies would be high. Phones would be staffed. Internet access would be thoughtful, etc. Remember, we're the ones who like government, believe in government and support those functions. We want them to run properly. Here I am not kidding. I have been around legislatures quite a bit, and the way to understand Republicans is to recognize that they hate government, and are working as hard as possible to either:

1) Eliminate. And if that cannot be done, then
2) Cut budget so that theprogram becomes dysfunctional.

I'm not kidding when I say I consider Republicans to be anarchists. They're trying to tear down our government. And they call that patriotism. What do you call Middle Eastern persons who are trying to tear down my government. Perhaps now you can begin to understand my sense of disgust......Arguing against a $10 annual fee to protect children. I'm ashamed for them. Many of the people in the room were ashamed for them.

[legion]

I don't disagree with you Superman, but here's my take on these kind of fees:

It starts out as a $10 annual fee. The economy is good, the legislature then decides to create a program to assist scuba divers with eczema pay for lotion so they don't chap their hands while weaving baskets. The next year the economy hits the brakes. The legislature reduces the budgets of education, the DMV, and other essential government functions. They don't touch the hand-lotion-for-flaky-underwater-basket-weavers program. Why? Because it was the pet project of the one guy they need a vote from to balance (don't laugh, this is all hypothetical) the budget. To help balance the budget, they increase the fee from $10 a year to $10 per minor employee per year. Economy rebounds, more pet projects. Economy tanks again. More essential government projects are cut. The fee is raised from $10 per minor employee per year to $50 per minor employee per year. Someone in the legislature suggest cutting the hand-lotion subsidy for scuba divers. The scuba divers respond by mounting a massive demonstration on the state capital...the legislature backs down.

I've found this cycle has nothing to do with the letter next to one's name. Illinois was controlled by Republicans for a long time and this happened. Now it's controlled by Democrats, and the exact same thing is happening.

[red-beard]

Supe, I lived in Albany, NY, Capital of New York State. Under Mario Cuomo, the government was expanded by a factor of 4 while the population of the state dwindled. The service at DMV, etc did not improve.

[Superman]

Fair 'nuff. I'd be the last to pretend things are perfect. But the first to suggest that a democracy works poorly when the voters are not paying attention. I repeat certain things often, and one of them is that I have no use for whiners who blame gubmint for everything but don't have a clue what's actually going on. In other words, in a democracy, government is not "them." Government is "us." Unless you're not in the game except to whine. Whiners have their own groups and their own heros. Rush, for example. They're outside the system if that's all they do, and they're out of touch as well.

Go to the hearings. In my state, there is parking on residential streets but you'll have to walk five or six blocks to where the hearings are held. That's the price you pay. Time out of your busy day, and walking a few blocks. At the hearings, virtually all you see are the faces of the same lobbyists, time after time. Joe Public rarely wanders in.

And actually, it's even easier than that. All hearings are televised on a public station called TVW. But again, this might have to take the place of Friends or Sex and the City. Who is willing to pay that painful price for democracy?

And yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree. Teens are cheap labor. If the $10 fee were multiplied by ten, then teen labor would still be a good idea for those companies. The testimony that these people will close doors on an orchard business because of this $10 fee is ludicrous. How stupid do they think we are? And finally, and most importantly, frankly they are shooting themselves in the foot. It was the Triangle Shirtwaist Company fire, which killed over a hundred young girls in NYC, that started the labor law reform that swept the nation. That was 1913and the result was to largely outlaw child labor, and stuff like OT for hours over 40 per week, minimum wage, etc. followed suit. Some day there will be a fire or explosion or building collapse in a fruit packing plant here, and dozens of children will be killed. Then these people will wish they had invested the $10. And the families of the dead children will be in the hearings and they will be watched on TV and the agricultural industry will change.

[mikester]

Well, I found a number that gives an option to speak to a clerk but when ever I choose that option it goes to a busy signal and hangs up.

Seriously...

[red-beard]

Originally posted by mikester
Well, I found a number that gives an option to speak to a clerk but when ever I choose that option it goes to a busy signal and hangs up.

Seriously...

Must be the extension of the Republican...

[Superman]

That's just hilarious.

Actually, I'm pretty darned confident that a substantial cadre of republican legislators have indeed voted to cut the budgets of both the tax office in your locality Mike, and the traffic court in San Fran. Pretty sure about that, sight unseen. That's their mantra. Hard to imagine a budget they would approve. Small Business Administration, perhaps. I'll bet the phone service there is great. It's not about people, Mike. It's about industry and waging war on your government. Eliminating it if possible. Making it work poorly if not.

[Jay Auskin]

Try calling your Chicago Alderman's Office....they're more than happy to put you in contact with someone who won't help you.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by Superman

And as you know, I'm somewhat sympathetic to government agencies. [/B]

OMYGAWD...SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO STOP LAUGHING...

[Dantilla]

Government budgets get bigger every year. Where does it stop?

[Superman]

Not all government budgets increase. For pretty much each of the dozen or so years I was at L&I, the governor called for 5% budget reductions. No whining or complaining. Didn't care how we did it. Just cut 5%. Each year.

So, if gubmint budgets are increasing in the aggregate, then one has to wonder who is getting the money.

And the better question is this: When budgets are cut, do you always save money? I am hoping to testify regarding a particular Washington State bill. And the thing I want the Committee to hear is that this particular law is a bad one to administer poorly. For reasons I won't bore you with. First place is to have the law and administer it properly. Second place would be to not have the law at all. Last place is to have the law, and administer it poorly. It is terribly expensive to do that. Administration of this law is currently in last place. Repeal is not an option. So, it should be administered properly. Trouble is, the Klingons hate it, and know it will some day be ripe for repeal. So, the last thing they will allow is for it to be adminstered properly.

So again, there is a political party out there that deliberately makes sure that laws are poorly administered and gubmint offices give poor service. And it ain't the Democrats.