Kids in a sad world

[billyboy]

My kids just went to another funeral today. They are 21,18,and 15. Since the 21 year old went into high school, they have had 5 kids that they know, commit suicide. When I was in school, I can't recall anybody killing themselves.Are things really that bad now or is there more input telling them that suicide is a viable alternative?

[Moneyguy1]

The world is a far more complex place than it was even 15 years ago. Heck, even an old codger like me sees it as more and more depressing. Maybe we can blame it partly on the information highway and easy access to just about everything. Kids seem to grow up too fast and take things far too seriously, as if the entire weight of the world rests on thier shoulders. IMHO, this is close to being as self centered as one can get.

Until people can understand that the world does not revolve around their individual problems, young folks will continue to take the easy way out rather than come to terms with life.

Just my opinion. Stay close to your kids, let them know you are available to listen whenever necessary, and do your best to convince them that the world is neutral re: their existence; neither working in their favor or conspiring against them.

[notfarnow]

Scary. Keep an eye on your kids... make sure they feel comfortable talking about it if they need to. Counselling might be a good idea if they were close with any of the people who commited suicide.

We've got a rotten vein of depression in my father's family... 3 suicides in 2 generations.

Interesting points moneyguy1... My father says there were for more suicides in the past than most people realize. Most were described as accidents or "untimely deaths".

[SteveStromberg]

Unplug the TV.
MTV and the like are bad news.
Do a search on Gideon West he used 120 cycles per minute Flashes in his mind control experiments.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I have to say I agree. It seems the choices available to teens today are (1) live a superficial existence of "ignorance is bliss" in which nothing outside their little clique matters and the most important thing in the world is whether or not so-and-so likes them or (2) have awareness of the crap world that's being left for them to "inherit".

It's bad enough being a "thirty-something" - arguably a member of either "Generation X" or "Generation Y". I'm not sure which. I'm part of the first generation in American history that will live less well than my parents. Those that come after me seem increasingly likely to live FAR less well.

Granted I went to college, but I did so at incredible personal expense. I assumed great personal debt and even with that "good college job" I cannot and likely will not be able to afford a home, nor a family. I often wonder if going through the "college mill" and racking up tens of thousands of dollars in debt was worth it. Most employers don't even seem to care whether someone has a degree or not and there are plenty of "McColleges" out there that just hand out degrees with a $50,000 price tag to the point I don't blame the employers for not trusting people even WITH degrees to know what the hell they're doing. Such "degree mills" have devalued a college education THAT much. We now have legions of people with DEGREES that can't write, can't spell, can't use a computer, can't communicate effectively, can't manage and can't exhibit any sort of critical thinking. They're trained test-takers and that's about it.

These are fairly typical sentiments among my peers - some deal with it better than others. I just kind of accept it. Some generations have had to deal with the fear of a draft (if I were a teenager now, I'd be VERY worried about that), others have had to deal with crushing poverty, some have had to deal with disease, some have had to deal with racial oppression, etc. I view the ills of my generation as what defines us - kind of the "generation nobody cares about" or the "generation of the damned" or "Generation Screwed". Suffice to say I (and most of the rest of people my age) don't have a very positive or optimistic view of where we are and where we're going.

The world today is basically just an endless series of bureaucratic inconveniences and various degrees of "getting screwed" by the system. It's a constant barrage of things to make one feel insignificant and powerless in an increasingly cold and hostile world. EVERYTHING from birth to death (inclusive) is systematized and proceuralized to the point there's no room left to feel any sense of individuality or identity. You're a number. A cog in an insignificant accessory in the machinery of society. You're incidental. I'm not saying it's right to teach kids that the world revolves around them, but it's nice when people can feel like their thoughts and contributions are meaningful and not just "bull**** to do while we wait for the grim reaper", as I've heard people explain it.

All-in-all it kind of sucks, but it could be far worse. It could CERTAINLY be better. I guess my attitude is pretty typical among those my age, based on my conversations with others. As far as those peers of mine that DO have children, they're gravely concerned for their future. Unlike our parents that felt they had a decent shot at leaving their kids (us) some opportunity, we now feel that we simpy can't since every last dime and resource is sucked away just to make ends meet. It's something that seems to trouble them greatly and it's one MAJOR reason I want no kids - I simply think it'd be more of a disservice to them to bring them into the world against such overwhelming odds and with such a virtual certainty of failure - unless the system changes and does so quickly. Given the backwards-ass direction our society is moving, I do not see this as likely to happen; rather I see an increasingly widening "class warfare" rift between the extremely wealthy and their servants / economic slaves - the poor. Some formerly "middle class".

Now that I've ranted as a thirty-something, I try to look to the subsequent generation - these teens that are apparently offing themselves in droves. I can't say I blame them. The world we live in is very complicated and horrendously unfair. Unless you're born with a million-dollar trust fund into a politically-connected family, you have no chance in hell of making an impact on the world, and very little chance of "making it" even as a mediocre worker-type. The "American dream" that motivated our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents is now dead. They live in a nation that is on the decline, has no direction and is adrift in purpose, guided only by economic unfairness, wars, hatred, xenophobic nationalism and people trying to take advantage of them and screw them over at every turn. I guess I'd be considering suicide too, given what it must be like to be them. My problems and worries are bad enough. To add all those to the problems of going through adolescence again would be VERY depressing!

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by billyboy
My kids just went to another funeral today. They are 21,18,and 15. Since the 21 year old went into high school, they have had 5 kids that they know, commit suicide. When I was in school, I can't recall anybody killing themselves.Are things really that bad now or is there more input telling them that suicide is a viable alternative?

You GOTTA be kidding...ask your kids about the "death awareness" stuff they are being taught in the Government screw-alls. My daughter graduated from high school in '88. She was given an assignment to write an essay about how she'd feel if I or her mom died...then asked to write her own obit. Mind games? Kids in government schools aren't being educated, they are being indoctrinated! Of course, all is being done in the name of suicide prevention... (edit) IMHO, the WORST thing you can do to a kid is place him or her in the hands of a High screw-all "counselor". Check the requirements for the job.

[ronin]

porsche-o-phile

damn, you're pathetic. did you ever get the notion to get off your ass and do something with yourself? the last four years for me have been a big pile of *****, considering going through a divorce, losing my business, almost losing my mother to a brain injury, and a host of other crap. but in those disastrous years I seem to have accomplished more than you ever will, and did it without whining to boot during a time when I had neither a pot in which to piss, nor the window out of which to throw it. the only reason why you are such a sour puss is because you don't have the courage to pull your ***** together and do something about your situation. I don't see the world as you do (thank GOD for that) not because I'm naive, but because I know that I am responsible for my own life, and if I want things to change I need to help make it so. get a grip, be a man and quit moaning. you're disturbing those of us with a purpose in life

I'm glad you choose not to have children for fear that they might want to do themselves in after having to listen to you whine. the lives of people like you tend to turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy

[billyboy]

Summary of New Research on Adolescent Brain Development

Recent developments in brain research provide scientific support to the theories on the limitations of youth's decision-making.

Researchers at UCLA, Harvard Medical School and the National Institute of Mental Health have traced the development of a child's brain to adulthood.


Through neuroimaging technology researchers have discovered that in a process called "myelination" a normal healthy adolescent brain develops during adolescence.


The brain's maturation process continues through adolescence and is not complete until the early 20's.


The area not yet fully refined and focused in the adolescent mind is called the prefrontal cortex.


The prefrontal cortex is the largest section of the brain, slowest to develop, and undergoes the most drastic changes during adolescence.


The prefrontal cortex is responsible for complex thinking. It allows the mind to organize, perform abstract thinking, prioritize, anticipate consequences, control impulses and conform behavior accordingly.


To compensate for the underdevelopment of the prefrontal cortex, the adolescent brain relies heavily on another area of the brain called the amygdala, which creates a tendency to react on instincts.


Biologically, adolescents do not have the same abilities as adults to control their actions and make sound decisions...... This confirms my suspicions from raising 3 of them. They rarely think about consequences, even when they have suffered the consequences(non terminal) previously.It's wierd how" mature" that they think they are.

[AFJuvat]

Well, I wasn't going to post it as succinctly as ronin did.. but I have to say Porsche-o-phile, that you paint a very glum picture.

A crap world left to then to inherit? the world is a MUCH better place than it was 20 years ago - the environment is certainly cleaner than it was left for our generation, education is freely available to anyone who wants it and is willing to work for it.

Who is getting screwed by what system? taxes? the government? Aside from being p*ssed off at foreign policy, how has the federal government affected your life in any way (aside from income taxes)

Your success or failure is what YOU make. YOU are responsible for what YOUR life becomes. YOU decide how successful or unsuccessful you are. YOU are responsible for your life - nobody else is.

Is our society problem free - hell no. Will it ever - probably not.

Deal with it.

The biggest problem out society has is an utter lack of responsibility for ones own actions. I'm not a smoker, I'm a nicotine addict. I'm not fat, I have an eating disorder. I'm not violent, it was the booze\drugs. I'm not successful because I live in a cold society.

Sorry, that is complete and utter bull*****

You went to college, you chanted that mantra "go to college and get a good job" - guess what - you and everyone else did that too. but that isn't the sole key to success. Success is earned through hard work and determination. Yes, the employers don't look as highly on degrees anymore - why should they - everyone has one but has NO PRACTIACAL EXPERIENCE.

If you aren't making enough money - find another job. If you are so narrowly focused that this is all you know how to do, get off your as$ and learn to do something else. You can be successful - but there is more to it than going to work and putting in 8 hours a day and drawing a paycheck.

BTW, I'm 35, have 2 kids (13 and 11) live in a $300K house (mortgage), wifes car is a 2002 (paid for) I have a 911 and a 944 (paid for) and I'm putting in a $30K pool at the end of the month.
Both kids have college funds, both kids are attending accellerated schools - they will dual enroll in college\high school in 10th grade.

My current project is getting our (spouse and I) retirement plans all squared away.

I have a bachelors in CIS, have a MCSE, A+, & CCNE. After being laid off and outsourced during my 12 months in corporate america (after 12 years in the USAF, I got a job as a Porsche mechanic. I generally work 10 hours a day, 6 days a week.

I still have my GI bill ($15K) If\when I feel like it, I will start working on a masters degree. Why - the money is there, it would be stupid not to use it.

Grow up, pull yourself together, water your crotch, grow some balls, and take responsibility for your life.

AFJuvat

[nostatic]

it is what it is. What you can change is your perception of and action/reaction toward the world. Sure the world is f'd up. It always has been. You can point to any time during history and find horrible things going on. And great things too. My personal life is in quite a mess right now, but I'm happier than I've ever been. Why? Because I'm moving forward and seeing the positives instead of getting wrapped up in the negative.

Your choice. You want to be a victim, or take control of the things you *can*? Alcoholics have it right:

god (as you find her/him), grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
- I simply think it'd be more of a disservice to them to bring them into the world against such overwhelming odds and with such a virtual certainty of failure - unless the system changes and does so quickly.

and who is going to change the system? Elves? Disgruntled generation x/y people who are upset because the oyster they've been given is hard to open? No, it will be the usual suspects...people who are smart, energetic, and perhaps stubborn enough to not listen when people say "it can't be done." My son will be one of those...unless he chooses a life of crime, in which case he will just be very rich. We're still working on that moral compass thing...

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Actually for you oh-so quick-witted types that feel it appropriate to judge me although you know nothing of me short of my interpretations of opinions shared by others in my age group, here's a little background:

I have a B.S. and a Master's degree; I have a commercial pilot's license and over 3,500 hours logged, most of it during three years flying cargo and working as a certified flight instructor. I have weathered a post-9/11 economy in the aviation industry (which sucked, to put it mildly) and a layoff during the recent recession (which sucked even worse). I am currently pursuing professional registration in the State of California as an architect and have a number of projects already under my belt. I have a pretty decent list of accomplishments and I'm busting my butt daily to better myself. I'm fairly proud of who I am and don't give a damn what anyone else thinks of it. If you think I'm just sitting idly by and lamenting lost opportunities for myself, you've greatly misread what I posted. I spoke in generalities, not specifics. I just happen to think my efforts won't be enough to enjoy the kind of standard my parents had and "lucked into". All I'm saying is that people today are not getting the same return on what they put into their careers and opportunites; I'm NOT saying that's a reason to not pursue it - merely identifying this dissatisfaction as a potential cause of depression for people - to bring it back to the original topic. Not that it matters that much - it ain't a contest; I'm merely stating that we've entered a time of backwards movement - social regression. Oh well.

I have seen and done things that you boneheads will only dream of. I have a good job, I make decent money, I live a pretty decent life. I do NOT however share your naive opinion that the world is all happy-go-fukky as you portray it. I call it like I see it. It's bleak. I see no clear vision or direction for our country and its people. I see very poor futures for our children. I see very difficult times for them. I CIVILLY gave an opinion to a question that was put forth on this board that DARES to differ from the "appropriate" canned B.S. line that everyone else will spew without thinking - and for that I get flamed. Figures. That seems to be about par for the course with regards to intellect and critical thinking nowadays - conform or flame. What a pinnacle of debate we've reached. Who's the one with the gonads here? The one that just pukes forth what's expected as a response ("gee, that's terrible. I guess there are some pretty messed up kids. Must be the fault of those dirty liberals", or whatever) or the person that actually offers a fresh opinion and an alternative viewpoint, politically incorrect though it may be?

Did I hit a nerve? Are you THAT insecure about the fact that you MIGHT POSSIBLY have something to do with being part of the problem, rather than the solution? You seem AWFULLY defensive. . .

Do you REALLY give so much of a damn about it? Give me example of you personally are helping to leave the world a better place besides buying crap and being good little consumers and slaves to our oh-so-visionary corporate and financial masters. Are you teaching those poor, messed-up kids to be concerned citizens? Encouraging works of charity? When's the last time you spent some time with your kids picking up a beach or a park? How about volunteering to teach or coach? I've done both, FWIW because you know what? I actually give a damn. I ultimately think it won't change anything, but at least I promote hope in the concept so that maybe someday when the "little guy" gets some real opportunity to effect some change, there might be people with the initiative to do something with the chance they're given.

Why then aren't you raising hell over the fact they're going to inherit a world that is NOT cleaner and more environmentally-conscious as you claim. I'm calling bull**** on that one. Prove me wrong. So we have Kyoto now. Big whoop. The U.S. (the worst polluter in the world) isn't even participating. As such, global warming will barely have a dent put in it over the next 50-60 years as a result. Things will get FAR worse before they get better while you monkeys sit on your asses and do nothing except bash those different than your pseudo-redneck selves in true "hater", ugly American fashion. How predictable. Yep. You care so much about the next generation, dontcha.

I'm out of this thread. It's clear to me that nobody here is going to offer anything further in the area of intelligent discussion, just more of the same old chest-beating, holier-than-thou crap. It's a shame. This thread actually had the potential for some interesting opinions and intelligent discussion with regards to how we can improve the state of our world, but I guess the level here is beneath such aspirations. Pity.

[M.D. Holloway]

Man, blessed are those who make it through that rant - dude, you need to get laid...

[nostatic]

careful talking about critical thinking skills...you have no idea.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by SteveStromberg
Unplug the TV.
MTV and the like are bad news.
Do a search on Gideon West he used 120 cycles per minute Flashes in his mind control experiments.

Totally agree. It may sound simplistic, but MTV and the rest make things that aren't okay seem like everyday life. Kids that witness that crap find it as a pat on the backsaying "just do it" whatever "it" may be. MTV is not allowed in my house. Sad because I grew up on MTV when it was music videos, not Nike propaganda. We still manage to be music lovers without the hype and mind control.

Sorry for your losses Billyboy. I have friends that are experiencing the same thing. The common thread has always been drugs. Maybe not the case for you, but parental involvement is so critical. It may not be enough in some cases unfortunately.

I'm going to go hug my kid now. He's home sick-we'll play "Need for Speed". Yes- I always choose the 911 Turbo.

[Moneyguy1]

Two men looked through prison bars.

One saw mud......

The other stars......

[MFAFF]

Porsch-o-phile..

Read thro your last post...congrats on the pilot stuff and now you are an architect...hummm..

I understand your fustration but still fail to see why such anger..

You are in a position, as an architect, to directly influence how people live, their environment and how they experience it, you can influence how the feel, how they enjoy or not everyday life and the trials and trivulations inherent therein.

Yeah life is a challenge...but if you don't like challenges why did you become a pilot and then an architect....both professions where you need a measure of independent thinking and action against a system designed to cover most but not situations and circumstances....

Only in acrhitecture there is no emergency checklist cos you can find yourself in genuinely new waters.

Also there is a measure of personal satisfaction of seeing your projects get built, of knowing the owners and users love and appreciate what you have done, of knowing you have contributed to something which will hopefully outlive you, something you can point to and tell you kids and family, that's what I did for all those hours at work.

Man I love getting invites to events at buildings I have built or when they are in the news etc etc..I makes me feel that the effort was worth it, was appreciated and meant something not only to me but also to the Client.

I know that the effort is something that has value, for myself, to teach others in my teams, others around me and mainly to teach my son that effort, when applied to something you enjoy and get great pleasure from brings its own rewards and will enable you to live a lifestyle you want. Sure I don't have an RS in the garage or a P-51 in the hanger, but I get by with an E and the odd Spitfire joy ride. Hell we all have to make sacrifices...

Being an architect is great, what other profession allows to play with coloured crayons, card board and glue and call it work?

[SLO-BOB]

Actually I didn't see Porsche-o-philes post as that negative. He was just telling things from his perspective to which he's entitled. I would caution anyone from ruling out a house and kids based on current circumstances, however. Things change.

Also, I believe China is a far worse polluter than the U.S.. Worry more about them and the dozens of mildly regulated nuke plants they're going to build if you really want to lose sleep.