Gotta go with Moses et al here. I have spanked our boy 3 times max, I cried more than he did. He's beyond it now, responds better to taking away stuff.

My folks never hit us, but we feared disappointed more then corporal punishment any day - is guilt worse then a stinging cheek?

Not much. The problem is still there. The real difficulty is that we're only there part time which leads to creative opportunities for paybacks (and the locals love that sort of game) plus we're urban newcomers to a mountain area who are not totally accepted and "think different". So I swallow my pride, use my pressure washer, play with my airpistol when there are no witnesses and read articles on poisons for pest control:D I suppose it's a small price to pay for having a hideaway easily reached from the city but a million miles from urban chaos. (I'm also looking into an ultrasonic gizmo that makes animals stay away but it needs to be tuned to the species and the maker isn't sure about the range for poultry, also seems to drive dogs "BARKING" MAD.

I think you did the right thing Juv, as a father of 3 kids myself I feel your pain , and nothing is worse than having your wife side against you. It only makes your kids respect you less.
As far as hitting your kid, ive slammed my sons against the wall more than once. Enough of this P.C. "kind hand" B.S! Sometimes yelling just aint enough. Hell by todays standards my father would get the death penalty for all the times he whacked me.

Kids today have no respect because they have no fear. Period! Not that I advocate beating the crap out of them, but a good whack is not criminal.

I will admit that this is NOT how I remember reading it and yes it sounds much worse that way. Hmmmm

Voilence is never a solution. Spanking? Well a well placed swat on the ass never hurt anybody I guess. However have you ever beaten your dog, (I'm sure you do, hell you beat your kid!) and noticed that they don't come to you as readily when you call them the next time. Why? They are afraid you will beat them again. Are people any different? If your boss at work punched you in the face every time you did something wrong what you do think would eventually happen? Some day you would reach your limit and whoop his ass regardless of the consequences. Get ready for your whooping some day. You need help.

The short answer to your question would be "Yes"

Ok, maybe this makes more sense. You should never commit the corporal punishment as a way to expel rage. It should be done with atleast a little sense of "I'm doing this to teach them a lesson" if that doesn't happen then the emotion behind it is no different than that of a common barfight.

I guess you have to ask yourself, " did I slap him because he needed to be taught a lesson, or because I couldn't help myself?"

The latter would require a change in tactics to be sure, and probably some deep reflection on your part.

Just because you label someone's experiences as 'baggage' doesn't make the lessons learned from those experiences wrong. Furthermore, if it seems like some people's experience with physical discipline/abuse is emotional baggage, maybe that should say something negative about that kind of discipline. At the very least it should be taken seriously and not just taken for granted, "yeah, I was whipped so you should go ahead and whip your kids." Corporal punishment does have its place, but those who choose to practice it on their kids ought to sit down and think about exactly how to use it - and never deviate from that in anger.

A common thread I've noticed through the posts agreeing with AF is that they all seem to think that not physically punishing your kids is only for henpecked liberals whose kids will grow up into the scourge of society. The truth is that there is a spectrum of punishments, and that corporal punishment, administered properly, should be on one end of the spectrum.

Violence can solve problems. But the kid should learn (along with the lesson at the time, ie, do what you're told) that violence should be used coolly, with a reason, and with the proper amount of force. Not because "that guy deserved a good beatin'".

Why did I post this - it is called venting. Also considering the views expressed on this board in the past, I was, shall we say, morbidly curious about what the response would be.

In any case, wife apologized when I got home from work last night - everything is fine

Son apologized immediately after her - we then went out to dinner and watched a movie at home.

I must say the responses were interesting - A few of them made me slightly angry - but since I titled the post the way I did and asked for opinions, I don't really have the right to slam people for giving me what I asked for.

I will say for those of you wildly speculating that "the relationship is over, your son will never talk to you again, he will hate your guts forever.."

Clearly, you either don't have children, or your sense of child rearing is so flawed; that I feel sorry for you when your kid does something really bad but unfortunately never learned that sometimes there are serious consequences for their actions.

One person asked if I treat other adults, co-workers and police officers that way.

No - we are all adults, we learned from our parents that you don't speak or behave that way to other adults.

Which was the original purpose of the discipline......

In any case, feel free to discuss further, I found the responses very interesting.

Thanks for the comments all

AFJuvat

**Edit** As an aside, my son and I were thinking back last night - neither one of us could even remember the last time corporal punishment was used as a method of discipline.

Sounds about right, glad it worked out. Though I doubt you'll let us know if it happens again:)

Glad everythings okay now.

No question the kid and wife were wrong. But you made the biggest mistake in this whole affair by reacting in anger and using violence. Next time I would leave and have the Guinesses first. Cool down before administering due punishment. First administer guidance and then, if necessary, punishment with a cool head. You'll get far more long term respect from all involved. Good luck.

Sorry, you need to accept the reason that you got the opinions that you did is directly related to the way you presented it.

While the rest of your original post did come across as rational and calm the 3 examples above painted a very dire picture of the events in my head.

Like I said, my father has a Jekyl/Hyde personality. The calmest most patient man I've ever met who at times would fly into a blind rage over something insignificant.

That may very well not be the case with you but it's what I got out of it. Admittedly my perception is skewed by my experience but it is what it is and I can't change that.

So maybe look at it as insight into what the future could be based on your actions today.

Or put another way, learn something from our history.

I'm thrilled that your family has come together and understands their part in what was surely a crappy day for all of you.

Unfortunately you were right until your son's and your wifes wrongs made you wrong.

So I guess that proves the old adage, 2 wrongs don't make a right. In your case they made 3 wrongs.

Scott

So this thread is about. . . coming up with ways to rationalize yelling at your kid because the DOG happened to get sick inside, why it's okay to blame anyone for the inconvenience of having to clean it up, why it's okay to smack around your kids? Uh huh. Riiiiiiiiight.

Look, I'm going to try to not be overly judgemental here because FWIW I DO think there's a time and a place to lay down the law with kids and that includes a smack on the ass once in a while, but if you're feeling guilty about it, there's probably a reason.

Look - it happens. Dogs (and people) sometimes get sick or can't control themselves. You can't blame them for it, it could happen to any one of us. If getting the dog was conditional like "you can get it but it's 100% YOUR responsibility", you have a right to get upset with your son. Other than that, he's not your personal butler or slave. Would it have REALLY been that hard to just clean it up and ask your son to explain why he'd been unable to do so?

GAWD! When I read stuff like this it makes me want to cut my own schlong off just to make sure I never have kids. . .

Do you mean to tell us that your son didn't ask for a shotgun and a black trenchcoat for his next birthday because of this? :eek:

Seriously, I'm glad it all worked out for everyone. This had to be a difficult thing to share, for the most part with strangers. given the wide array of replies you received, I believe the "most appropriate" way you could/should have reacted is in here somewhere. But, seeing as how it is YOUR family, YOUR relationships, the ultimate eventuality needed to be worked out by the three of you. Sounds like that is happening. Good on ya!

Randy

You don't get it, it had NOTHING to do with the dog or its poo. But I do agree about cutting your schlong off:)

I don't believe in hitting the kids but the answer to your question is NO, it would not have been hard to do that, but it would have been WRONG to do that.

The kid is 13 and is old enough to take some responsibilty in the maintenece of his home.

The fact is he saw it before anyone else and choose not to do anything about it.

That indicates either laziness or lack of respect for his surroundings and or parents.

Totally and completley unacceptable behaviour. Let them get away with that kind of crap and all you've raised is a slacker who will never grow into a self suffiecient adult.

Please refrain from having kids if that's how you'll raise them.

I don't want my tax dollars going to support them when they can't make it on their own.

I suppose THAT is really the point. Had his son truly been "unable" to do it, i.e, physically incapable, not home at the time, etc... I'm pretty sure this wouldn't have happened.

The issue was that he WAS able, but chose not to. And when questioned about his choice, became beligerent to his parent(s). It would seem to me that the beligerency is the underlying issue.

Of course, that's only MY take on it.

Randy

Juvats post had nothin to do with his dog or him trying to justify violence. Its all about not getting the respect the deserves as a father and husband. Any normal father can understand his anger and frustration.
As far as the comment about his kid being his personal slave.. WTF??? His parent asked him to do something. PLAIN and SIMPLE!
He shouldnt have to ask him why he didnt want to do it.

With parents having views like yours, its no wonder kids today are a bunch of lazy, disrespectful bastards.:mad: :mad:

Well said. I deal with this occassionally with my teenagers. Of course they would rather ignore the mess and watch Tv-it happens all the time. It would be soooo much easier to just do it myself. Unfortunately, then my kids have not learned responsibility and I have failed one of my primary missions-to make my kids productive, self-sufficient members of society. If they can achieve this status, I believe happiness will follow.

Re: Am I an As*hole??
 

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"Somewhat miffed..."
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"I start yelling..."
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"Wife finally yells..."
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"I order son out of bed..."
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"Wife starts yelling..."
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"...I start yelling..."
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"...I told him to do it and damnit, he was going to do it."
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"Son makes terrible mistake at this point and starts yelling at me...."
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"After the beating,..."
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"...wife continues to yell..."
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"I'm so angry ... I cannot see straight."
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"I'm pis*ed..."
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"...he was smacked a few times across the mouth..."
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"...I do not reason with children..."
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"I do not feel I did anything wrong."
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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"...morbidly curious..."
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"...wife apologized..."
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"Son apologized..."
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"...everything is fine"
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Well hell, 'good to hear that those two "apologized" and that "...everything is fine". :eek: