Your name isn't really Mikey Teutul is it?;)
I was going to suggest that, if the opportunity comes along for you to leave it might be worth a second look. I have been in an extremely stressful situation(first marriage, money problems, etc.) i can only tell you that, for me, the best thing I did was to get out of the situation. Life is 100 times better now than I ever thought it would be ten years ago.
Don't forget that you have a wife and family that needs you to be sane.
I am not one to dispense advice much but sometimes a good therapist can REALLY help. One thing I was told by my mentor is that you cannot change others but only your self. I applied that philosophy and I saw an incredible difference. Other times, it just aint' gonna work no matter what you try.

A great script! ;)

This sounds exactly like the reason I'm in AZ trying to hack it as a corporate grunt instead of making high 6 figures at the family business.

My grandfather started it and died being hated by both of his sons.

My father and his uncle hate each other; my uncle tried to strangle my father in the office once (took two guys massing >400lbs to drag him off). My uncle has stolen eqpt from the shop and attempted to start a competing business with it, by teaming up with one of the co. reps and trying to steal customers.

My father's in the phase of just trying to amass enough $$$ to retire comfortably.

Every time I get fed up with corporate life and consider working in the family "biz", I'm going to come back to this thread and give it a once over!!!

Oh, here's another interesting side script. Dad hires this guy to run a small department here (manages maybe 3 guys). It involves some buffing, polishing, welding, etc.... Anyway this guy is a pretty hard worker, but about as intelligent as the lump on my left nut. This guys also has a MAJOR weed addiction and is high all the time. BUT.....this guy talks a good talk and works hard (even though inefficiently) is basically illiterate and cannot do simple math (you get the idea). Dad LOVES this guy! It hurts my head, but this guys is like the son he never had. He makes about $5k more a year than I(and brother) do????!!!!!???? Scams overtime like it's mints at a buffet checkout, and basically has his nose buried in dads ass. Now keep in mind that dad would kill us if we had this guys lifestyle, but for some reason............


I don't know man, it's just depressing as hell. Either they are all going nuts or I am. I don't like my odds:)

Damnit Blue, you're not helping:)

lendaddy, if your heart isn't in it, you should find a way out.

My brother and I are partners in rental properties. He's easy-go-lucky and I used to be the penultimate perfectionist (engineer to the nth degree). I realized we had to meet in the middle. I learned to push my brother when needed, and I pulled the burr out of my ass and created a "give-a-fock" attitude when perfection was absolutely necessary (ceramic tile jobs true within 1/64"). ;)

A complicating factor in your situation is you've allowed your brother and father, to some degree, get away with the BS for a long time. If you called them out in the beginning, you might be able to manage things. Now, by their admission, they are "The ShiZT" and your comments will only be taken negatively.

I do wish you luck.
jurgen

Jurgen,

I agree that I've made my own bed to some degree. I always thought they both looked up to me on an "intellectual/business sense" level. But now it seems maybe I was wrong.

Neither of them have a clue about finances so maybe they think there's nothing to it for all I know. They both spend whatever they want whenever they want on their pet projects with no remorse when they are fruitless.

Man I sound like a catty old woman here, but it feels good to let it go. I don't share this stuff with anyone, which makes it all the more unusual that I am saying it here. Oh well, why not.

Lots of good stuff from you guys so far and I do appreciate it.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get you down. I actually worked at the shop for a summer and I was never so close to homocidal. I know how bad it can be.

What about going back to school?

Len, get the hell out of there while you still can. Its not like finding a normal job gets easier as you get older.

If it is bad now, imagine how it will be when your dad steps aside/dies and you are stuck trying to co-own and co-manage the business w/ your brother.

My wife's two older brothers went into their dad's business, and bought it from him when he was retiring. After the dad died, the brothers started not getting along, and it all ended up in a disaster of lawsuits, criminal complaints, money and equipment disappearing, and one brother trying to drive the other into bankruptcy. They were trapped, you see, both 50-ish and no-place else to go.

Think ahead 10 years and what does the picture look like. If it looks bad, then you need to change it.

Holy *****! Don't brothers get along anymore?!?!

That's just it, I thought we had a great relationship till a month or so ago. I backed him up on everything, never put him down. Gave him life advice and really tried to help him period.

My dad always said "you need to work things out with your brother". To which I said we were great that brother and I had a fantastic relationship and worked great together. I discussed that with brother and he agreed. Then a couple weeks later....BAM out of nowhere he goes of on the accusations..etc... and admits he was lying to me that we were cool?????

I don't know, but I have enough problems of my own now. I hate to think of what will happen if he has no one normal around, but what can you do? He has a decent amount of talent, but the rest is fuzzy.


Another little side note.

When I left high-school my parents wanted me to go into the business. I had a scholarship to a great engineering school across the state. I told them that if I were to turn that down I wanted to know the business would be mine someday. My brother was in the military and showed no interest in the business whatsoever, they said that it would be mine to take and that brother wasn't interested anyway. So I did it. A few years later he comes back and it becomes "ours" again just slowely over time without discussion. I didn't complain a bit and never even brought it up to them. I actually had no problem sharing with what I thought was a brother that complimented me well. Now????? Man I have no idea, and just shake my head at my decisions.

As far as up-and-leaving:

Even if I ultimately come to that conclusion it's still complicated. My wife is pregnant, due in October so we need health ins. I would be a hard sell for similar employment. I have tons of experience, but no degrees. I guess I have no idea how that would sell so I shouldn't say for sure. I don't make much money now so that's not really the issue, but I don't want to go backwards in life if I can help it either. LIke I said, it's just complicated.

How about getting a degree from an evening program? Three years of extra hard work would see you with an MBA, for example. You'd have been earning your regular income/benefits in the meantime.

I have no idea if an MBA makes sense for you, or if some other degree would be better - but the same idea would apply to some other degrees, for example a JD.

If you want to mention what kind of degree you'd pursue if you could, and what kind of alternative work you'd do if you could, I'm sure there'd be plenty of suggestions.

One way or another, sounds like you're in a dilemma with no easy solutions, but if the situation isn't going to spontaneously solve itself, you've got to bite the bullet and do something. I found myself in a career dilemma too, and solved it by returning to school and going "backwards" in money terms. I don't regret it.

Yes, I agree with John. It's time for you to do something for yourself. Going back to school would be the best option. You write well, and I assume speak well, have a good analytical mind -- possibly law, such as a JD or higher, might work out for you.

Then you could sue your family and truly make them wish they hadn't ****ed with you. :D

Funny:)

Right now the two of them are engaged in a cold-war of sorts. They go around asking everyone if the other has "said anything about them". No, I am not kidding,it's like the 5th grade around here. FWIW they are 33 & 54!! Sad times indeed.

On the upshot, today is my anniversary:) 8 years.

Have a Jameson's...on me. I'll PayPal you the difference. ;)

I work as a management consultant. Often in family businesses like yours. I have seen your situation many, many times.

It is not going to get any better, if you are lucky it will not get much worse.

I think you need to seriously consider your options and be proactive. Think through the consequences of all the possible options and talk it through with your wife. Here are some of the options I thought of:

1) Sit tight and do nothing and hope it improves. It is not going to get any better, if you are lucky it will not get much worse.

2) Sit tight while looking actively for a better opportunity.

3) Buy out your father and your brother, with the proviso that they both leave. Whether they accept or not this will likely cause bad feeling, especially with your father. If they accept, your father will always think of the business as his and act that way. From how you have described your brother it is likely he will return to you looking for help within a few years.

4) Find finance and start a business on your own. Not a great prospect with a pregnant wife and limited finances.

5) Try talking to your father and remind him of what your doing, undertakings given and what you've given up. try to come to a resolution. Do not give an ultimatum unless you are prepared to walk.

Regardless of what you decide, stop covering your brother with your father, he's old enough to carry his own responsibilities. Some machiavellian players in the management game would play off father and brother.

Start measuring the output of the weedhead running the department, when you have some hard numbers you can try discussing his performance with your father, asking him if he thinks it's adequate and what your father would have achieved.

Break a leg and into the lion's mouth;)

Go to school at night, we've got a 5 month old and both my wife and I work full time it is hard but it is doable. Schedule yourself a nap on the weekend to make up some sleep.

During the day just simply stop caring about what they do. What exactly do you do? The accounting? Give them weekly reports on the expenses so that they see on a regular basis that THEY are failing the business with their irresponsible behavior.

On another note - Maybe something else is up with your brother - it isn't normal for things to come out of left field like the hatred you describe.

First, thanks Milu. Excellent advice and it's refreshing to hear this isn't that uncommon. I may be picking your brain further if that's ok? I have alot to decide.

Mike, He is NOT right. I don't really know how else to say it. He hasn't been right for a long time. A combination of bad luck and stupid decisions have turned him into the crazy freak I deal with now:). He has all the potential in the world, but developed a victim mentality as well as a self destructive lifestyle. You do the math...