If I quit, this place will go under!
 

Is this not....THEE most asinine statement in the history of employment? Just got that one from my brother(we work together), I'm in awe. No one is irreplaceable, no one and that includes me. Had a buddy say the same thing a couple years ago when he quit his job, odd that their still there. :rolleyes:

Sometimes I really think some people are incapable of rational thought on a anything approaching a consistent level.

He's a good guy that's good at what he does, but totally irrational. If you can help it, NEVER work with family!

Why didn't I take that scholarship 14 years ago?:confused:

To be honest I have thought the same thing a few times but then my common sense kicked in and said it won't be the same without me but they can survive. They may have a few rough months but with the right people they can survive and they would need to do some hiring quickly. My work now runs on what seems like a skeleton crew and no ones knows exactly what I do but I do know that I am replaceable.

Exactly, it may cost more in the short term and they may not do everything as well, but you have to be realistic. I just don't get it. I understand his plight and have told him many times I wouldn't blame him if he left. Sometimes it just doesn't work with family. He however has this ultra inflated ego about his abilities. He once told me that he was too intelligent and valuable to clean up after himself! He thought we should hire someone to clean his workshop and replace his tools at the end of each day, and he was serious! I have defended him to the hilt(he is my brother) and he is talented at some things, but he's way past the buoys here. It's not even about whether his gripes are legit or not, the attitude is out in left field. Oh well, I wish him the best, and hope he finds something that makes him happy but I just don't see it working here.

Rant over.

Another one that gets me: why do people that know the least, know it the loudest?

I once heard something to the effect of "Every business is a cup of water. You are a thumb in that cup of water. Pull that thumb out, and how long does it take for the water to fill the void?" Something like that. Stuck with me though. People need to leave their ego at the door.

If you want to know how valuable you are, tell them you want more money or you will leave.









Have your bags packed!

I got canned from a job once, mostly because I wouldn't kiss my team lead's ass... That same day, I had word from a planner that my build (I did assembly on high end microchip manufacturing equipment) was going to be in high demand the next week.

Only myself and one other guy in the whole place knew how to do my build, so my team lead dug himself a big ass hole when he had me fired. The guy I worked next to told me after I got canned that it was a mess for a couple weeks, and that the team lead got demoted. hehehe.

I was replaced, though.

Being Im a self employed im the most important person at my business because im the only person in my business. I have quit a few times but I have never accepted my resignation. :D I have had employees in the past and have called their bluff and let them go. When their attitudes reach that level it really sours the work enviroment and its best to let them go. I hear you on family its not a good idea because when things go bad its hard to leave them at the office.

Yeah, hopefully all employers have a "hit by the bus" test, and all really important unique things are at least slightly documented somewhere. My boss would be hurting, but I'm replaceable, possibly even for a little less money.

I'm replaceable...but it took training *5* guys to do the different aspects of my job(s) when I went on a really long vacation.

Anyway, it's been demonstrated through various studies that the lower the IQ, the greater the overestimation of one's abilities and/or value.

We are equals working under our father. Even though he(dad) doesn't get too involved in the business end, he does have ultimate say. But anyway my brothers total lack of reality is killing me.

I am far far far from perfect, so I'm not claiming anything of the sort. But, brother got crazy pissed at me a month or so ago and things haven't been the same since. First he accused me of stealing from the company:( That was neat, so I showed him all the records (including the fact that I loaned the company $15k a few months earlier) and that I took payment in liew of vacation(just as he has done). At any rate that seemed cleared up and he was satisfied that his imagination got the best of him, or so I thought. Next was the "you don't do anything around here" spaz meeting. I lost it on this one. I run the office he works in the grease. Like most in his situation he thnks anyone that doesn't get dirty doesn't do anything. Heck I was there once (I think I was 14 though:() Anyway I explained to him that we have a million dollar business with 20 employees and challenged him to find another this size with only one person in the office as we have. That didn't work, so I further explained that I average 20 hours a week(end of day and sat/sun) running actual machines on the floor on top of my other jobs. Still not enough, he thinks that anytime I have a mement I should be out on the floor getting dirty. And that because he is always "working" he should make more $(we make the same).

I just don't know how to react to the attitude. The guy badmouths me to the other employees etc... something I would NEVER do. I am just frustrated.

Now he has had a VERY hard life(two divorces and much more) and I understand that he needs to vent a little, but I can't take it anymore. On top of this my father is also going crazy over this. He (dad) is also a control freak so they clash huge. The whole thing is a massive clusterfuk and I'm having a hard time.

Brother has major depression issues on top of this and I don't want to push him. I have been his biggest supporter up until the "episodes" mentioned above.

This is really just a vent more than anything, the stress in my life is at crazy levels and this is just one more f'n straw.

I hear ya, Len.
My brother and I were going to go into business together many years ago. Simple business, a car wash. He was going to run the customer side and I was to handle the business/marketing side. Yeah, right. We couldn't even agree on what city to look for property. Best thing I did was drop all the plans. I hope for the business's sake, you guys can work this out. It seems to me you have had a hard time this past year.
Is he smaller? As in, can you kick his a$$? I always pull that reasoning with my brother when he gets to smartin' off to big brother. J/K

Seriously, good luck.

Lendaddy - you're much too smart to let this effect you. Can't there be a family meeting - an airing out so to speak - and a defining of borders - you have your place, he has his? I've worked in close family environments before, and believe me, if he does quit, or if he's fired, it'll be hell come Thanksgiving and Xmas when the family gets together. Prepare to drink mightily.

Or, as an alternative, you could quit...

But that not cleaning up after himself, telling everyone they're not doing their job, etc - hell, if that's the case, send him to Hollywood. He sounds like natural-born director. :)

Oh haha, thanks for the laugh. He is actually a monster, benches like 3XX something and is basically a brick ****house. So I don't think I'll be able to throw my considerable weight around:)

DD74,
I have considered quitting many many times, but I don't want to throw away what I've invested. Besides that I wouldn't want to bail on my parents either.
My brother is not a bad guy, he's just warped in his thought process from the crazy life he's had.

The last time we had one of these family meeting it got real ugly. My dad takes out his disapproval of brothers "lifestyle" on him at work so that never works. Brother thinks dad is an idiot that isn't fit to hold his reading light, and I am left the peacemaker. I end up absorbing abuse from both so they'll stop focusing on each other. I'm just sick of it, it's like BS from some kind of pathetic soap opera.

The thing eating at me lately is I am in financial ruin right now and I have been reflecting on my life decisions.

1- turned down scholarship to run family business

2- turned down partnership 5 years ago (dad frowned heavily on any "other business ventures") and the guy is a multimillionaire now.

3- Could have quit and moved to Cali 4 years ago with an awesome deal from my wifes previous employer. House, cash, huge salary, etc..

I feel like like a schmuck

Family business is difficult at best. When I started my own Land Surveying business my father told me I was making a huge mistake. You get this feeling your family is talking about you when you are not there. I was pretty sure the attitiude was, lets see how long he lasts before he folds.

By my second full year of business I was hitting 3/4 mil in revinue and getting more clients by the droves. By my third year I was well over a Mil in revinue and still growing.

Suddenly my little bros wanted in.

I went against my own instinct on this and hired him. He almost put me out of business. I am still getting sued 3 years later for some of the fruadulent work he performed and covered up. I ended up firing him after 1 year on the job. He walked around downing me behind my back saying I was an idiot and no clue what to do. He felt because I was inside running things I had no idea how to do it. Meanwhile I had 15+ years experiance in aLL ASPECTS of the job and knew quite well what needed to be done and how to do it right.

What hurts most is the fact that its family. If it was some A-hole off the street you would enver loose any sleep. When its flesh and blood it cuts too deep.

When I quit from a company in Merritt Island near the space center I was VP. I ran the place for 25K a year. When I passed my State Exam and got my license I asked for 35K and benifits. He told me no and I was gready. I had a employment contract so I could not work in the county. I moved 2 counties South and was making 50K a year. I found out after I quit 3 people needed to be hired to replace me. The one that ran the crews (my main job) was fired 2 weeks later and replaced 5 times over and then the boss gave up and started doing the job himself. He USED to take 1 month vacations because I ran the place liek it was my own. Those days are gone for him.

Sometimes a place will suffer greatly when a key player walks. Some owners do not see it that way and let their own egos get in the way. I have a key player right now on staff I give him the world because he makes my life so much better. When you find someone you can trust to run your company they are worth their weight in gold. He knows I appreciate him, he has been approached to leave but never will. My next move it so give him a piece of the action so he will never leave.

lendaddy - you are in a pinch. You, your brother and your dad need a good sit down at a pub or something and talk this out.

My brother and I did not talk for 2 years after I fired him. He was embarresed and I was super pissed at him. We sat down and talked it out and are buddies again. Although it still hurts when I think of how bad he f*cked me over when he worked here. He has cost me 100K in lawsuits and now insurance woes. Its hard to supress that pain when you are around the source.

Damn, do I hate stories like this! We're going through this right now with my wife's brother. He's a pure, unadulterated ass-hole, who refuses to alleviate his positions only because he's the namesake ("junior") to the old man's legacy. So my wife and her sister have effectively voted him out of all further proceedings with any properties they endeavor on - two against one, you see. It's all Hollywood crap, these properties, BTW, and the three are set up as equal partners to a trust concerning the properties.

What I'm aiming at here is if there are other sibblings involved in the family business, quite possibly you could vote him out of the business if they side with you. But it would also entail pops stepping away, because it's easy for "dear brother" to run to him and say "they hate me." Etc.

I don't know - the situation I'm privy to can be completely different from your own. There sounds as if some deep-rooted emotional issues are involved here, vis-a-vis a tough-assed dad (I know what that's all about) and boys who were told to pull themselves up no matter if they fell on the ice and broke their jaws, limbs or face. All I can tell you, Len, is don't let this crap get the best of you. Your wife and kid come first. If the ****e hits the fan because of someone as close as a brother who should know better, you have to tell Dad, "I'm outta' here." Take some of that owness off yourself and lump it onto the overall situation of your mental/emotional well being. You shouldn't have to take it!

BTW: I don't ordinarily believe in such, but it sounds like your brother needs some serious therapy.

lendaddy, you've given us three examples of opportunities you've had. Passing on them out of loyalty to your family is no bad thing. I've got a lot of respect for you.

But after all you've done, and the money is still tight, maybe you can just bite your tongue until opportunity number four comes along, and leave with a friendly handshake, keeping relationships intact.

I know ( I believe really) the best thing for me would be to walk. I have already hit near bottom so I don't have much to lose. I am dead serious there and I'm pretty OK with it, life goes on.

Now, my parents are good people but not that savy if you will. My dad did pretty ok when he was younger because he worked like a dog. He powered through everything. He was the poster boy for "work harder not smarter". I'm not slamming him, I actually have alot of respect for him that regard.

But now he has these bazaar grandiose ideas about products and/or services we should do and pumps money into them that we don't have. (actually brother does this as well). It becomes a asinine competition between them as to who has better ideas, I'm not kidding it's that juvenile. I just want to stabilize and get comfortable, they want to go crazy. I just closed our million dollar debt service refi last week and that helped some but it is depressing as hell that I can't set up budgets or even a PO system that they will abide by. So I have lost my ambition, and find myself being unproductive. I use to get excited and work on projects through the night, now I'm on here. Like I said I'm not perfect either.

This is incredibly out of character for me to share this personal stuff, so enjoy it while you can:).

Just convince the discovery channel to film your work day, throw some huge arguments and youll be a millionaire in no time. I mean it worked for those american chopper schmucks.

LOL, I actually told the two of them to watch that show together. They are actually MUCH worse than those two tools if you can believe it.

Lets see, dad threatened to remove brother from will if he didn't break up with his girlfriend (who was a complete nutball FWIW but still none of his business) and brother tells me dad trapped him in this horrible job and he'de be loaded if not for him. Says he hopes the place folds so dad will learn his lesson. This was today after work. I assumed he was kidding but asked for confirmation. He said nope, he was serious.

WTF am I dealing with? It's unreal.

Your name isn't really Mikey Teutul is it?;)
I was going to suggest that, if the opportunity comes along for you to leave it might be worth a second look. I have been in an extremely stressful situation(first marriage, money problems, etc.) i can only tell you that, for me, the best thing I did was to get out of the situation. Life is 100 times better now than I ever thought it would be ten years ago.
Don't forget that you have a wife and family that needs you to be sane.
I am not one to dispense advice much but sometimes a good therapist can REALLY help. One thing I was told by my mentor is that you cannot change others but only your self. I applied that philosophy and I saw an incredible difference. Other times, it just aint' gonna work no matter what you try.

A great script! ;)

This sounds exactly like the reason I'm in AZ trying to hack it as a corporate grunt instead of making high 6 figures at the family business.

My grandfather started it and died being hated by both of his sons.

My father and his uncle hate each other; my uncle tried to strangle my father in the office once (took two guys massing >400lbs to drag him off). My uncle has stolen eqpt from the shop and attempted to start a competing business with it, by teaming up with one of the co. reps and trying to steal customers.

My father's in the phase of just trying to amass enough $$$ to retire comfortably.

Every time I get fed up with corporate life and consider working in the family "biz", I'm going to come back to this thread and give it a once over!!!

Oh, here's another interesting side script. Dad hires this guy to run a small department here (manages maybe 3 guys). It involves some buffing, polishing, welding, etc.... Anyway this guy is a pretty hard worker, but about as intelligent as the lump on my left nut. This guys also has a MAJOR weed addiction and is high all the time. BUT.....this guy talks a good talk and works hard (even though inefficiently) is basically illiterate and cannot do simple math (you get the idea). Dad LOVES this guy! It hurts my head, but this guys is like the son he never had. He makes about $5k more a year than I(and brother) do????!!!!!???? Scams overtime like it's mints at a buffet checkout, and basically has his nose buried in dads ass. Now keep in mind that dad would kill us if we had this guys lifestyle, but for some reason............


I don't know man, it's just depressing as hell. Either they are all going nuts or I am. I don't like my odds:)

Damnit Blue, you're not helping:)

lendaddy, if your heart isn't in it, you should find a way out.

My brother and I are partners in rental properties. He's easy-go-lucky and I used to be the penultimate perfectionist (engineer to the nth degree). I realized we had to meet in the middle. I learned to push my brother when needed, and I pulled the burr out of my ass and created a "give-a-fock" attitude when perfection was absolutely necessary (ceramic tile jobs true within 1/64"). ;)

A complicating factor in your situation is you've allowed your brother and father, to some degree, get away with the BS for a long time. If you called them out in the beginning, you might be able to manage things. Now, by their admission, they are "The ShiZT" and your comments will only be taken negatively.

I do wish you luck.
jurgen

Jurgen,

I agree that I've made my own bed to some degree. I always thought they both looked up to me on an "intellectual/business sense" level. But now it seems maybe I was wrong.

Neither of them have a clue about finances so maybe they think there's nothing to it for all I know. They both spend whatever they want whenever they want on their pet projects with no remorse when they are fruitless.

Man I sound like a catty old woman here, but it feels good to let it go. I don't share this stuff with anyone, which makes it all the more unusual that I am saying it here. Oh well, why not.

Lots of good stuff from you guys so far and I do appreciate it.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get you down. I actually worked at the shop for a summer and I was never so close to homocidal. I know how bad it can be.

What about going back to school?

Len, get the hell out of there while you still can. Its not like finding a normal job gets easier as you get older.

If it is bad now, imagine how it will be when your dad steps aside/dies and you are stuck trying to co-own and co-manage the business w/ your brother.

My wife's two older brothers went into their dad's business, and bought it from him when he was retiring. After the dad died, the brothers started not getting along, and it all ended up in a disaster of lawsuits, criminal complaints, money and equipment disappearing, and one brother trying to drive the other into bankruptcy. They were trapped, you see, both 50-ish and no-place else to go.

Think ahead 10 years and what does the picture look like. If it looks bad, then you need to change it.

Holy *****! Don't brothers get along anymore?!?!

That's just it, I thought we had a great relationship till a month or so ago. I backed him up on everything, never put him down. Gave him life advice and really tried to help him period.

My dad always said "you need to work things out with your brother". To which I said we were great that brother and I had a fantastic relationship and worked great together. I discussed that with brother and he agreed. Then a couple weeks later....BAM out of nowhere he goes of on the accusations..etc... and admits he was lying to me that we were cool?????

I don't know, but I have enough problems of my own now. I hate to think of what will happen if he has no one normal around, but what can you do? He has a decent amount of talent, but the rest is fuzzy.


Another little side note.

When I left high-school my parents wanted me to go into the business. I had a scholarship to a great engineering school across the state. I told them that if I were to turn that down I wanted to know the business would be mine someday. My brother was in the military and showed no interest in the business whatsoever, they said that it would be mine to take and that brother wasn't interested anyway. So I did it. A few years later he comes back and it becomes "ours" again just slowely over time without discussion. I didn't complain a bit and never even brought it up to them. I actually had no problem sharing with what I thought was a brother that complimented me well. Now????? Man I have no idea, and just shake my head at my decisions.

As far as up-and-leaving:

Even if I ultimately come to that conclusion it's still complicated. My wife is pregnant, due in October so we need health ins. I would be a hard sell for similar employment. I have tons of experience, but no degrees. I guess I have no idea how that would sell so I shouldn't say for sure. I don't make much money now so that's not really the issue, but I don't want to go backwards in life if I can help it either. LIke I said, it's just complicated.

How about getting a degree from an evening program? Three years of extra hard work would see you with an MBA, for example. You'd have been earning your regular income/benefits in the meantime.

I have no idea if an MBA makes sense for you, or if some other degree would be better - but the same idea would apply to some other degrees, for example a JD.

If you want to mention what kind of degree you'd pursue if you could, and what kind of alternative work you'd do if you could, I'm sure there'd be plenty of suggestions.

One way or another, sounds like you're in a dilemma with no easy solutions, but if the situation isn't going to spontaneously solve itself, you've got to bite the bullet and do something. I found myself in a career dilemma too, and solved it by returning to school and going "backwards" in money terms. I don't regret it.

Yes, I agree with John. It's time for you to do something for yourself. Going back to school would be the best option. You write well, and I assume speak well, have a good analytical mind -- possibly law, such as a JD or higher, might work out for you.

Then you could sue your family and truly make them wish they hadn't ****ed with you. :D

Funny:)

Right now the two of them are engaged in a cold-war of sorts. They go around asking everyone if the other has "said anything about them". No, I am not kidding,it's like the 5th grade around here. FWIW they are 33 & 54!! Sad times indeed.

On the upshot, today is my anniversary:) 8 years.

Have a Jameson's...on me. I'll PayPal you the difference. ;)

I work as a management consultant. Often in family businesses like yours. I have seen your situation many, many times.

It is not going to get any better, if you are lucky it will not get much worse.

I think you need to seriously consider your options and be proactive. Think through the consequences of all the possible options and talk it through with your wife. Here are some of the options I thought of:

1) Sit tight and do nothing and hope it improves. It is not going to get any better, if you are lucky it will not get much worse.

2) Sit tight while looking actively for a better opportunity.

3) Buy out your father and your brother, with the proviso that they both leave. Whether they accept or not this will likely cause bad feeling, especially with your father. If they accept, your father will always think of the business as his and act that way. From how you have described your brother it is likely he will return to you looking for help within a few years.

4) Find finance and start a business on your own. Not a great prospect with a pregnant wife and limited finances.

5) Try talking to your father and remind him of what your doing, undertakings given and what you've given up. try to come to a resolution. Do not give an ultimatum unless you are prepared to walk.

Regardless of what you decide, stop covering your brother with your father, he's old enough to carry his own responsibilities. Some machiavellian players in the management game would play off father and brother.

Start measuring the output of the weedhead running the department, when you have some hard numbers you can try discussing his performance with your father, asking him if he thinks it's adequate and what your father would have achieved.

Break a leg and into the lion's mouth;)

Go to school at night, we've got a 5 month old and both my wife and I work full time it is hard but it is doable. Schedule yourself a nap on the weekend to make up some sleep.

During the day just simply stop caring about what they do. What exactly do you do? The accounting? Give them weekly reports on the expenses so that they see on a regular basis that THEY are failing the business with their irresponsible behavior.

On another note - Maybe something else is up with your brother - it isn't normal for things to come out of left field like the hatred you describe.

First, thanks Milu. Excellent advice and it's refreshing to hear this isn't that uncommon. I may be picking your brain further if that's ok? I have alot to decide.

Mike, He is NOT right. I don't really know how else to say it. He hasn't been right for a long time. A combination of bad luck and stupid decisions have turned him into the crazy freak I deal with now:). He has all the potential in the world, but developed a victim mentality as well as a self destructive lifestyle. You do the math...