The USGP: NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!

[Stukarrera]

It's obviously a France vs USA thing.

[MichiganMat]

Such stupidity.

What is with the FIA anyways? I mean, c'mon, relax the friggin' rules for Christs-sake. Put in the chicane, swap the tires, put on the race!

Somebody (and by "somebody" I mean "everybody") needs to lose their job over this. What a waste.

[Panzer909]

Okay. I'm settling down a bit now. Just by complete dumb chance of circumstances, I had to miss my annual trip to Montreal for the Canadian GP (a friend was getting married last week). So I figured Indy was going to by a great "consolation" trip. Oh man what a mistake THAT turned out to be! All the F1 news sites say that everyone is well advanced in the finger-pointing game already. The IMS even issued a statement directing ticket-purchasing folks to "take it up with Michelin and/or the FIA". My question is: How in the hell are we supposed to do this?

Bring on Long Beach for future USGPs!

[Dennis Kalma]

Must confess I am of two minds about it, but if I had to choose, the preponderance of blame would go to Max Mosely and the FIA...basically if you put a whole bunch of strange rules in place and attach a huge amount of money to successful results, well, strange things happen.

I agree that Michelin had a responsibility to provide a workable tire, but when you are only allowed to bring two tire types (plus wets), the track is resurfaced and relatively unknown to you, I would probably do what Michelin did and bring two tires that are likely to be competitive and likely pretty close to each other in construction with only relatively moderate variation between the two (they HAVE a successful recent record...they were likely building on that). Then you find out there is a problem, not totally sure what it is (your engineers really can't replicate the problem on the test bed....if they could have they would have picked up on it beforehand), and you know if cars start flying off of the track due to tires exploding, and perish the thought that someone gets killed....well the choice is easy. Take your lumps now and everyone lives at least.

I understand that Michelin flew in a bunch of replacement tires which **allegedly*** would have worked for the race, albeit unknown and untested on this track, but FIA did not allow Michelin to use them.

As for the idea of racing and just changing them frequently, well this is another dumb rule problem. FIA would have to decide on a case by case basis whether changing was justified, and if you took them off too early, then you were screwed for the penalty you got....if you took them off too late...well, someone may likely get hurt.

I think the chicane idea was desperate and ill founded, the better answer was to let Michelin use the other tire (if there really was one they were willing to let everyone drive on that is), otherwise....well, maybe realizing it is a sport there for entertainment and putting in the chicane was the best answer, maybe with half points for non-Bridgestone finishers or automatically awarding top points to Bridgestone drivers may have been the best choice in a very poor set of choices.

Ultimately the real answer is to get rid of Mosely, Ecclestone and that entourage and have some decent rules and management govern the sport....

And yes, for those who went and blew through their cash for a non-event....in 10 years time, you will at least be able to say you were there at the worst debacle in F1 history....I bet you WILL remember....

Dennis

[rhk109]

Michelin..what the he!!. They should have told their drivers to slow down in turn 13 or live with the consequences. What if Bridgestone quit when they were at a disadvantage? We wouldn't have seen the 2005 Ferrari all year.

[rhk109]

Oh yeah...Tire wars suck.

[Stukarrera]

The one thing it made really obvious though is the fact that Bridgestone tyres are only being used by "perennial backmarkers". And Ferrari.

Odd.

[2.7RACER]

Just makes me appreciate NASCAR. They know where their support comes from. Bernie can take his Euro trash circus back across the pond. You all can knock the IRL or Cart, but they seem to get around Indy quite well. Been doing it for years at speeds higher than those supposedly ultimate in race car engineering know it alls. Take me back to pre-Bernie when F1 meant something.

[trj911]

I was there. It's a shame Michelin didn't do their homework to see what tires would work and what tires wouldn't! Michelin only tested at Indy once with two sub-par drivers and Bridgestone tested for weeks with some of their best drivers. And then Michelin complains that they need more time to change tires?!?

[Vonzipper]

Originally posted by trj911
I was there. It's a shame Michelin didn't do their homework to see what tires would work and what tires wouldn't! Michelin only tested at Indy once with two sub-par drivers and Bridgestone tested for weeks with some of their best drivers. And then Michelin complains that they need more time to change tires?!?

Was that before Tony had the surface re-done and then ground twice

[trj911]

Michelin tested after the surface had been reground. Bridgestone tested before and after.

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by Vonzipper
How would have the UK spectators reacted in a similar situation

UK spectators would have missed the race, because it takes hours and hours just to get into Silverstone (I know, I've done it).

By helicopter is the best way in and out of that track.

Ralph

[qcwang]

Originally posted by 911mot
Probably a track invasion. It would be quite difficult to launch a styrofoam cup of tea over the fence without burning yourself, or the poor sod two rows in front.

Too Funny!

[Panzer909]

Originally posted by 2.7RACER
Bernie can take his Euro trash circus back across the pond............ Been doing it for years at speeds higher than those supposedly ultimate in race car engineering know it alls. Take me back to pre-Bernie when F1 meant something.

You know.......there was a time when I'd very much disagree with those words. But in the last few years, the F1 circus just finds too many ways to turn people off, a la Austria 2002, Indy 2002, and the horrifically stupid qualifying format as of late. What happened this afternoon was a long time comin', IMHO, and something tells me that it will not be the last screw up before the season ends.

Yep - F1 is in serious trouble. Bernie: come back to the States when you get your act together. American fans are NOT impressed.......................

[adomakin]

Andy, How would have the UK spectators reacted in a similar situation

Badly. There is a fair bit of booze flowing on the day and some pretty hardcore followers that would have been well grumpy if this had happened at silverstone. I think an uncontrollable track invasion, as 911MOT said, would have almost certainly been on the cards. perhaps a little random boxing thrown in for good measure. although probably aimed at an innocent marshall knowing our lot!

Andy

[CarreraS2]

So, what's the end result? Does Schumacher get the win and the Championship points?

If so, I don't blame Ferrari at all for what they did. It's racing, and when your competitor's tire company can't get their act together, why should a team (Ferrari) agree to adding a chicane, letting the others run without points, or altering the rules in any way to put Ferrari at a competitive disadvantage?

It sucks what happens, for sure, but that seems to be Michelin's fault.

[Ed Bighi]

[i]
Bring on Long Beach for future USGPs! [/B]

I second that. Vegas would not be bad either. Laguna Seca would be too good to be true. I'd have to pinch myself.

As for Cart and IRL running well on ovals, they are designed to run on ovals. Only when dry of course. Running on ovals, with stagger and positive/negative camber I might add, is a big part of their design process. Hell, you don't take a velodrome bike to the tour or vice versa. But still, Michelin should have tried a little harder. But Bridgestone should have also for this entire year.

As to one tire manufacturer, this is the only way. Formula 1 should be about three factors. Skill, Chassis, Motor. Any fourth factor always ends in trouble. Witness the turbo era. Those were some of the best times for the spectators. But when the cost of the custom fuel cocktails, an inherent part of the turbo era, got out of hand, that variable had to be removed. Now it's tires. There is room for only one type of each consumable when it comes to F1. By consumables I mean tires and fuel. No room for a fourth factor. Only works temporarily.

As to Bernie, he has outdone his usefulness. After all, you already have FOCA and FIA which is enough bureaucracy as it is. Thank god for an expiration date on the concorde agreement.

Will I watch F1 again? Been watching it since I was a kid going to Interlagos every year. So I will always watch. As bad as F1 can be at times, it is real. This reality brings all the politics, mistakes, pride, dominations, outrageous costs, torrential downpours during races, whatever. Life itself is this way. It isn't dumbed down for mine or any body's tastes, which is why I always come back. But this time the ***** has truly hit the fan in a bad way. I doubt anybody financially connected to F1 will get a good night of sleep for at least a week.

As for whoever attended and saw no show, sports fans can go through worse. My wife is leaving for Winbledon this coming week. Could it be rained out? Maybe. Has it been in the past? Of course. Could it last the whole time she is there? Sure. But you can't curse out the sky like you can Bernie. The only consolation is that there are plenty of other things to do in the London area when compared to Indianapolis.

[BGCarrera32]

Originally posted by 2.7RACER
Just makes me appreciate NASCAR.

Well, Indy F1 only had 6 cars on the grid but at least they raced the whole thing without 135 caution flags and the pace car out every lap...

Granted it was boring but no worse then Nextel Cup.

[trj911]

Nothing could make me appreciate NASCAR.

[Mule]

And to top it off, when asked about Danika Patrick's success, Bernie makes the statement that women should be kept in white like the rest of the kitchen appliances.