What is the goal of Terrorism?

[IROC]

OK, here is a naive, but totally serious, question: What is the ultimate goal of terrorism (and I'll limit it to Islamic Fundamentalist terrorism)? I mean, bottom line, what do "they" really hope to gain?

Elimination of all infidels? Possible goal - but not gonna happen. Too many "cockroaches".

Destroying our "freedoms"? Doubtful goal, but makes good bumper stickers.

Getting the "west" to abandon Israel and let it fend for itself? Maybe, but there's got to be a better way.

Just to pester us because they don't like us? Surely not, but then again I may be naive...

I've read the conspiracy theories about Islamists (?) wanting to take over the world, but it seems "terrorism" is not going to achieve that goal.

I'd like to hear some opinions on this. What is the ultimate goal? What are they trying to achieve and how does "terrorism" advance them towards that goal?

Mike

[Moneyguy1]

Just to add to the mix: "Idle hands are the devil's worshop".

How many of these characters are just looking for something to do out of boredom, clamping on to the fairy tale about doing God's work?

[stevepaa]

I think the true OBL type only really care about their Islamic faith and getting western influence and people out of "their" country. The fallacy being that it is "their" country and not the country for all the people in it.

As I have usually stated, the only way to end this type of terrorism is to diminish the supply chain of suicide bombers. That is done via political/economic means. The recent changes in Iran only support this idea. If the terrorist leaders can not recruit the young martyrs, then they are done with as the people will no longer implicitly or explicitly support them. It takes time but I think the demise of the IRA gives hope for the future.

[Jeff Higgins]

I'm beginning to think they don't even know themselves. If they really thought it through, how many could tell us just what they are after? Any of their stated goals are simply unrealistic. I'm reminded of Woody Harrelson's character in "Natural Born Killers"; he couldn't explain it either. It's just what they do...

[Moneyguy1]

The OBL type are religious "zealots" (that definition would pi$$ him off). As such, by civilized standards, insane. But, so was AH, and both seem to be able to mesmerize people into believing them and following whatever they say. Sometimes I think insanity is contageous.

If God took seriously everything done in the name of God, God would probably consider becoming an athiest.

[IROC]

Could it be that the root of the problem is belief in Islam as a legitimate religion (i.e that it's true). If the terrorists didn't believe in Islam, would they still be terrorists? Probably not or at least not with the same fervor.

Unfortunately a concerted effort to show that Islam is not true would simply alienate them even more (try convincing a Christian that Christianity isn't true - they don't like it).

To me, it is frustrating that so much death and sorrow in this world seems to be as a result of supposedly "loving and caring" religions.

Mike

[Mule]

Check the koran, it's about conquering the world for allah.

[Purrybonker]

What is the goal of the crusading invaders? We can't even agree on WTF America et al is doing in Iraq let alone beginning to understand why the "terrorists" want to go off on us.

But if I had to hazard a guess, I suspect that it has something to do with an eye-for-an-eye and possibly a tooth-for-a-tooth. America et al has been seen to be practising "unsubtle" diplomacy in muslim states for decades. OBL et al have long ago stated that such dabbling (and continued dabbling such as Iraq) has given rise to a desire for payback.

That the terrorists seem to find moral justification for their actions in their religious teachings is consistent with the Americans et al finding moral justifications in their religious, political and/or socio-economic teachings.

The output on both sides seems consistent as well. Death, human suffering and righteous indignation seem to be inexpensive commodities these days.

[Mule]

Bonker, pardon me if your attempt to equate us with these murderous b*stards pi$$es me off. Remember, before the infidel went to the middle east there were no oil trillions, no marble palaces, golden robes or Ferrari Enzos. They were herding goats & wiping their a$$es with their hands. And they were still killing. They just werent killing us. So as far as what we have "inflicted" on them, we have inflicted wealth beyond their wildest immagination. Have they used it to build universities?, hospitals? industry? No, they have used it to try to kill us.

[IROC]

Originally posted by Mule
No, they have used it to try to kill us.

So....why? To what end? Also, haven't you advocated going over there and killing them in other posts? And that is justified because your cause is more just than theirs?

Mike

[techweenie]

Mike/IROC, I have to hand it to you, I really have to think about your question.

I'm just another guy with an opinion, but I see it as a bit of a knot,. Religion is tied up in there, but I wonder if it's mostly a tool to recruit and manipulate the least educated and most disaffected in society? (I've read some real stereotype-breaking stuff about education and employment levels of Palestinian suicide bombers -- male and female -- but I think that's a different situation.)

I suspect OBL and his ilk (and the kids who took over our Tehran embassy in the '70s) blame behind-the-scenes maneuvering of the West for various area ills. I think they want us to believe their region is too dangerous for us to mess with through our government (but they'll want our tourist dollars soon after). So: an official 'hands off' policy toward the m.e. is my suggestion as their goal.

[artplumber]

OBL's stated goals are to remove the infidels from the holy land ie Saudi Arabia. Secondary goals are to remove infidels from all muslim nations and isolate Israel. They have chosen methods to try and cause as much disruption to the "western" way of life as possible by striking at the symbols of our "corruption" (read capitalist lifestyle). This results in money spent protecting against them vs spending on more capitalist things like bigger houses (personal level) or more money to healthcare/military (government level).

[Victor]

It's a conspiracy by Wayne and PP to keep the OT forum alive.

[IROC]

Originally posted by artplumber
OBL's stated goals are to remove the infidels from the holy land ie Saudi Arabia. Secondary goals are to remove infidels from all muslim nations and isolate Israel. They have chosen methods to try and cause as much disruption to the "western" way of life as possible by striking at the symbols of our "corruption" (read capitalist lifestyle). This results in money spent protecting against them vs spending on more capitalist things like bigger houses (personal level) or more money to healthcare/military (government level).

I have read this regarding OBL's goals, but if you think about it, even his own terrorist organization's actions are not doing anything to advance him towards this goal. Not only has he not removed the infidels from muslim nations - we're infesting them! The isolation of Israel may come to pass, but it seems like a very indirect path.

They have achieved the goal of disrupting our way of life and causing us to spend huge amounts of money on "homeland security" but in the end, what real satisfaction to they gain while they sit around in their cave and pat each other on the back while Apache helicopters circle above?

To me, unless we really understand what their goals are (and I don't, for sure) then we will waste alot of time and effort developing and implementing plans to stop them.

Mike

[IROC]

OK, one more thing...I read once that OBL's ultimate goal was to bring the US (and probably the west in general) to it's knees financially. If this is really the case, he might just be brilliant. Look at how much money we've spent since 9/11 as a result of his actions compared to what he's spent to initiate the whole mess. Pretty good ROI.

And every day, we're hatching plans to spend more money on the "War on Terror".

Mike

[gavinlit]

Certainly is expensive to fight a war - particularly when the target is terror. Profitable for some though. Now just imagine if ALQ managed to set up a company that wins major supply contracts to the military and used the profits to further their cause - ok my mind is just running away with me there. But if we consider a state like Saudi Arabia.....

[Mule]

Mike & Peter, hes I have advocated their killing as I would anyone sworn to kill me & mine. You are correct about wanting to clear the arabian peninsula of infidels but that is the beginning, not the end. The koran says the world is divided in two, the house of islam, & the house of war. What is the war over? Conversion to islam or death.

Look in the bible & see if you find any instructions on how to divide up the spoils of war. You won't. Check the koran. If you took out everything about waging war against the infidel & how to divide up the proceeds it would be half the size it is.

[IROC]

Originally posted by Mule
What is the war over? Conversion to islam or death.

So, to ask the question again...how does terrorism get them closer to this goal of "islam or death"? They might as well be stomping infidel cockroaches - it ain't gonna work. That's what I am trying to understand.

Mike

[Mule]

Really, Spain pulled out of Iraq & now their spending state money to build a mosque just to show there's no hard feelings.

[IROC]

Originally posted by Mule
Really, Spain pulled out of Iraq & now their spending state money to build a mosque just to show there's no hard feelings.

Sounds like extortion to me. If we did something like that (built a mosque at the WTC site to appease them for instance) I would harbor some serious hard feelings.

Mike