If you didn''t think "by design" was not going to affect you and yours, was not a decision, perhaps you need a new architect: children are serious business, the singular most important thing we do. Also the the best, BTW.
Get it right, Tia, it is no longer about you. I very much hope you understand how important your next few steps are.

Re: wise men and ladies gather around
 

1. Marriage is the oldest most unfair business contract ever invented - a woman must of came up with it - or at least my lawyer said so.

2. Medical costs now may pale in comparison to long-term divorce consequences.

3. She will always be bad with money - you keep the checkbook, keep her on a budget; some people just need a little structure then they are okay.

4. Pre-nump - you start with a lawyer, tell him what you want. Pay for her lawyer to review it, if she has no lawyer just open up the phonebook and find one- have her do that last part - must be HER lawyer doing the reviewing.

5. A positive thing is a pre-nump remember that, it will get you both talking about expectations. Marriage counselor can do the same but remember marriage is a unique contract with society - it creates a "family status", not the child. A child does not create a family, the marriage contract does.

6. Scottmandude said something about "marriage counselors", before hand - great idea if lawyers scare you.

7. You can just about throw the pre-nump out after five years of marriage, you can throw it out right away if a child is involved too. Better have a lawyer tell you that and not some goofball like me on the Internet.

8. Know your rights, know your responsibilities - get professional advice ASAP.

EDIT:
9. California - 50/50 state, right? Makes your decision even harder.

10. My best man never married the mother of his daughter, they lived together for 4-1/2 years she went back on booze and drugs he kicked her out, she went into rehab. He has his daughter now and likes it that way.

The kid is the #1 priority. He doesn't need to married to make that happen. Being married didn't make me a better father. I wasn't allowed to be the father I wanted to be, based on my ex's dominance over me and the children. Everyone's situation and the personalities they are dealing with are unique. Ideally, marry your girlfriend, don't be selfish, and live happily ever after. That isn't reality though. This thread hits a bit too close to home for me so I'll stop posting instead of getting in to back and forth junk. Good luck.
If you don't want to get married, don't. But remember that your child is your #1 priority. That doesn't sound disjointed to me. It sounds like realistic advice. We don't live in a fairy tale.

Christian.

I'll try this again but being a middle aged guy who has never been a father it is hard to put into words.

As described by my married family friend, the love between a man and woman is something special, however the love between a father and child is something completely different and even more special. That is a pretty lame description but I hope something comes through in translation.

As I was taking my morning walk on my day off a gentleman was leaving his house and from the upstairs window a little voice called out "I love you daddy, think about me"

Again on meeting a mate in our later years, finding someone you can get along with is usually much harder to find than someone that can give you a woody that you don't want to talk with before or after sex.

Okay I'm rambling.

What is a pre-nump? Is that the time just before you get a nump?

PM'd ya, K9.

Oh, and; Welcome to your life; there is no turning back. :)

K9, I am recently married and am recently a father. I'm in my early thirties and felt much the way you did until I met my wife.

It was a whim to say the least that we met at all; a lark.

There was really no question how it was going to end up very early on in the relationship.

I've been in longer term relationships but in the end they don't work out because if you're going to be with someone for a while without any "financial commitment" then you're just renting. That's what marriage is to some extent (in the most non-romantic way to put it possible). It's a mortgage; it can be a good fixed mortgage at a nice low rate or it can be a wacky negatvie amortized arm. It can be a good marriage or a bad one; I'm quite lucky in that I have a wonderful woman to share things with. But don't kid yourself - if you simply don't think that way about your relationship with this girl then don't kid her either. The fact is parenting isn't easy and it'll be harder for both of you if you aren't "together" doing it. You don't have to be married for that part. There's more than just being together to help eachother through it; simple moral support isn't enough. Parenthood is a joy but it's also a b1tch in that you know have to care for this innocent and helpless little one. If you have help then that's great but when you go to bed at night - who are you going to reflect on that parenthood with? Who are you going to savor it with? Your dog?

If you're not already willing or able or wanting to commit to this person - you shouldn't have got her pregnant at all. It was irresponsible to do so as you're playing with your child's and that woman's lives (not to mention your own). It's much too easy to play that "it was an accident" card but that fact is - it wasn't. You both knew the consequences of the sex you were having and unless you had at least 2 forms of birth control going at the time of conception then you've got no excuses to fall back on. Still; you could put the child up for adoption or do the unthinkable and have an abortion (it had to be said).

I'll relate my newly married and fathered experience.

The wife and I don't get much of the time we had "together" before we had the child. We work a lot harder and life is a lot more complex. Our sex lives have diminished a bit; we still make time for it but not as much as before. I think we're ahead of the curve on that than most folks who don't have the relationship we do. The boy takes up so much of our energy though that quite frankly at the end of the day or even in the middle we're both very tired and happy just to go to sleep together and maybe snuggle up and talk about how f'ing cute the little dude is. We just have so much love in the house right now it's unbelieveable. I never ever thought it would be like this. Ever.

It's f'ing awesome man.

I couldn't imagine even trying to do this without my wife - but if I didn't love her as much as I do - I wouldn't have wasted her time. She's a great girl and the guys are still lined up outside waiting for the moment I slip up or die.

So yes, you can be a father without being a husband. Even a good one I'm sure but your child will be so much better off having a father who is also a husband to his mother. And if the love is there then your child will have so much to stand on that the chances of failure are nearly negated.

You'll juggle schedules, work, play (I play nearly as hard as you) school and all the normal things but in the end you'll never be able to get home fast enough to see your kid and your wife. Once you see them all that crap melts away because you do it for them and they do it just the same for you.


If all this mush discusts you - well - it would have disgusted me too. Now I know what matters though; while it's important to keep your wits about your selfishness once you've got a kid it's quite simply time to grow up. Otherwise you're that creepy old guy driving the 14 year old babysitter home in your porsche telling her to call you "Mike" (if you're me) instead of "Mr. Mikester."

Which do you want to be?

Here's my life.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1122239896.jpgSmileWavy

Wow, Mikester, that is just about as complete a reply as anyone can make to this question.

My 0.02 is the much the same: Marriage is great for people that want to get married (not just for permanent sexual partners). Divorce (and a bad marriage) is worse for a child than a visiting parent. Writing a check does not a parent make. It's hard to be a good parent if you are selfish. (This doesn't mean you can't have anything, just that your child becomes first priority).

Final note: your children are your legacy when you exit stage left, what kind of person do you want to be remembered as. (bad engleesh I know)

Bottom line: It's not about the (so-called) adults involved here any more. Their wants should take a back seat to the needs of the child.

damn dude! cept for babysitting, i am there for you dude.

pre-nup FOR SURE. sorry, i just feel that way. call it pressure release or something. did i mention pre-nup? i bet a lawyer can pull up a standard copy or something.

i also think that marriage is only good for one reason, kids. is that the only way for your lady friend to be covered by insurance? i think there is a domestic partner thing in california, but it costs alot more.

PRE NUP, and dont sell anything. nothing that will make you sad, at least. marry the lady. (if you love her, alot)

toby the dad.....hmmm. you will be fine. oh, quit smoking fool.

MikeZ,
That sounds like our house, too. My wife and son are awesome. Being a Daddy is not easy but it is rewarding. My wife and I have planned our life so far to our own terms as much as possible. My first marriage was not based on love and respect. Luckily, we did not have any kids so I have no obligations.
Bottom line is the child needs parents, married or not.

Aw. just marry her already. If you push her away because you won't commit and draw closer then she may find someone else. You will still have to pay to raise your child and will always be tied to whatever gooberhead she decides to have around.......not to mention what that would do to your kid.

Just marry her. Go forward and don't ever look back. Once you decide to do it, do it and stay with it. It will be very tough, but worth it in the long run.

my 2 cents.

Good luck whatever you decide,

i have read every word. i am digesting.

thank you all for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences.

Get a life! Take on the responsibility. Do you have any idea how precious your own child is?

Get over it. Commit. If this turns out to be a mistake - well then you will have to extricate yourself from the mess - which is, after all, your mess.

But all this namby-pamby "I don't know if I should or not, and please PP members help me" crap is a bit hard to take.

Really. Grow up!

Pregnancy is a pre-existing condition according to most insurance companies. My ex-coworker found that out when he married his knocked up girl friend. Oh yea, the insurance company said she would be covered, but he had nothing in writing.

They now have three kids, 17 years of marriage - stay at home mom.

Time for the unwed fathers to join in I think.

Its not the getting married that counts...its what you intend doing with it.....after all bailing out is never cheap or easy..

If you made the decision to have child then you have already made a commitment far deeper and greater than a signed marriage certificate...especially when that birth certificate is presented.

One thing you do not mention is do you live with the future mother..I sure hope so..

Why agonies over getting married when all this is happening? There's enough going on already so adding what is potentially the most stressful event you can volunteer to do on top sounds pretty crazy, but what do I know.

We have had two weddings in the family this year; my partner's two sisters got married this year and I would not wish it on anyone... and her brother, father of three kids is going to get hitched as well....this autumn...

Does it make any of them better or more committed to each other? Not as far as I can tell, but hey I have several years head start on all of then in the family as it were. Time will tell.

What counts is whether or not you want to spend the rest of your life (as best as you can make out) with that person and what she will become and are you going to take parenthood up with both hands and run with it for all you're worth....'cos believe me its pretty wild, fantastic ride and the more you put in the more you get back from it....

Ya know, I haven't even read the responses so here are my blind $.02:

Marriage is more than love, it is friendship and sharing. It sounds like yall are friendly and that she shares. Can you learn to share? I hate to see people get married "just for the kid" but I also would hate to see the kid come into the world in an unmarried situation. I know people who have loved this type of relationship and that is good for them, but the kids are confused.

At the very least you need to start working to take care of your future off-spring. This will include taking care of the mother. You give information about yourself, but have you really sat down and talked to her? What are her future plans? Does she see you in them? What does she want? What would make the both of you most happy?

If you are both miserable, the child will be also. This is the next consideration. Don't do something that will limit the love your child will experience. You know how you wanted to be treated when you were a child, now it is your opportunity to show your own child this degree of devotion.

While I do love my wife deeply, we are mainly each others best friends. It is the friendship and then the passion that keep marriages going not the looks of the people involved. Have you spent time learning what your significant other desires? Ask yourself what you truly desire.

i see you are about a month, and 35 posts in so i don't expect you to get it. this is a community like few others, so when you have been here a year or so you will find that MEMBERS of this community do take questions of this nature to the group. so, that being the case i brought my issue to them because i value many of the member's advise, and knowledge in a vast number of areas/topics. if you dont like it it move along to the next thread and see if you can help more there. you on the otherhand have had the 1st post in this thread that i find useless. the lack of understanding of this community demonstrated in your statement above renders it less than zero.


to hit on a couple points not raised by dottore.

i want this child, and look forward to being involved and raising it. i do love this woman but the nature of our relationship is a long distance affair, 60 miles anyway. we spend every other weekend and many vacations together. its just the saturation of marriage that scares me. i am prepared and expect them to move into my home and life.

i noted my "selfishness" is not a stingy/cheap thing. its as someone stated above, i have been unfettered for 20 years when it comes to making decisions regarding my life and losing that ability is scary. i am however ready and willing to do so.

again, thank you for the time you guys have spend sharing your thoughts on the matter. even dottore had some points, i just chose not to count them because his tact and lack of understanding how this group interacts and works for one another.

yeah. RUN LIKE HELL!!

:D

mmm? i wonder if wayne can set up a gift registry at pelicanparts? nothing says "love" like some nice, supple, black door seals.