my damn dog may have crossed the line...

[vash]

thanks toby.

just some extra background. this "problem" dog is just that. she went from home to home. basically, i was the last stop before the "long sleep". if someone didnt take her, she was dead at the hands of a shelter. she isnt good with other dogs, wasnt good with kids, and hated cats. it has been a hard road, but i kept with it, and she can now play with other dogs, she hasnt killed our cat, and i dont let her near kids. she was abused in the past.

my other dog, is another charity case. she has cancer, and some brain damage. but she is really sweet, and i am only here to provide a comfy "last stand". so i adopted her. her disease, cushing's disease, will probably cause incontinence when it gets worse. i will cross that bridge later.

i try to be the best pet owner i know how to be. i just dont get the best dogs to start with. molly is the first dog to flat out fail the diablo dog training school. never been so proud. and the sick dog has cost me my SSI money, oh probably some race seat money too. thanks for the advice. i have a vet appointment, later in the week to check for a bladder infection. more money. if not, i will explore a crate.

[TWork]

Vash --

I didn't see in your original post if you said old old the dog is or how long you've had her. Also, I didn't see whether its a reoccuring thing or what (it could have been a nerves thing if the UPS man came by and knocked or something, etc). I think the crate training idea is a good one. The last five dogs I've had have all been crate trained and it has worked pretty well. If the dog has moved homes quite a bit and been mistreated, it'll provide her with some sense of home, stability and security. It may take longer than you might initially expect for her to feel like part of the pack and she may be testing to see what her position is. The other suggestion may be to find a local trainer. I'd see if you can't find someone by word of mouth rather than the local Parks and Recs. I've had better outcomes that way.

Oh, and on the comforter and bed... You'll want to go pick yourself up a gallon of "Nature's Miracle" from a Petco or similiar place.

T.

[vash]

i am gonna hit the incontinence section of some store to find a mattress cover. so far, bedroom door is closed.

she is only 3 years old, and we have had her for two. only damn time something like this happened. i thought we hit the lotto with her, cept for the skittish thing.,,oh and the house destructive thing, and the tree pruning thing, holes, ....but i did get her to bring me a screwdriver once....

[jrdavid68]

Originally posted by CRH911S
[BMy bud Palmer...nearly five months and house trained. FWIW, fido will not peeeee were he/she sleeps. [/B]

Nice pic CRH911S!!

Here's my baby Addie - she is spoiled rotten, sleeps on the bed, all the furniture is hers too, although I do get first pick. She is my first dog and I will probably not be so lenient with the next dog, but for now, I love my Addie girl.

[CRH911S]

You're better off with it pissing in a plastic kennel(crate) than on your rug or bed.

Bad advice...now go sit in the corner.

With a three year old dog it's anyone's guess why she wet the bed. My guess is she was dreaming.

Now, crate training is for starters and I don't think it was ever intended to be a permanent arrangement. It might be for some but my lab prefers a furniture-moving blanket. The catch? The blanket needs to be where the crate was. Strange, but that's how he likes it.

what a bitcch! i have been running and excersising her. yesterday, despite having 3.5 hrs. of sleep, i did 10 miles with her on the beach. today, she hung out with me, while i toiled in the yard. off to home depot, and when i get home...WTF?!!! there is a piss spot on the bed!

I don't think she understands the quid pro quo thing. Try a little unconditional love...

[operationcougar]

so my dog did this to me, and what got me was that my dog was "super smart" if you will, but only when he wants to be, so when i went to bed one night and layed in a pool of piss, i figured it had to be somekinda joke to the dog. so, at the time i was kennel training and i figured in order to get the dog back i should just come home from work and use the kennel as some form of a crude urinal.

never did it but im sure it would teach the dog a lesson

[Par911]

Originally posted by CRH911S


Bad advice...now go sit in the corner.

With a three year old dog it's anyone's guess why she wet the bed. My guess is she was dreaming.

Now, crate training is for starters and I don't think it was ever intended to be a permanent arrangement. It might be for some but my lab prefers a furniture-moving blanket. The catch? The blanket needs to be where the crate was. Strange, but that's how he likes it.

CRH911s, it might just be that you have a retarded dog. You know what they say retarded owner = retarded dog.

I don't think she understands the quid pro quo thing. Try a little unconditional love...

What kind of ignorant statement is that? Vash has a good heart to take in dogs that nobody else wants, and you spout off at the mouth saying he doesn't show it unconditional love? Get a life.

[KFC911]

Vash, Thanks for taking in, and caring for the the 'less fortunate' dogs that you have! I don't really have anything to add...you're received some excellent advice already. I've always crate trained my dogs, it's an excellent, 'dog friendly', technique that works! Not that this is what you've experienced, but sometimes even 'house broken' dogs will try to convey a message... My female lab (now approaching 12 yrs. old), is a GREAT dog, and was crate trained and house broken from the 'git go'...never an issue with her going in the house. However, the first time I ever left her (she was about 8 months old at the time), she tried to send me a message . I picked her up from my parent's (who kept her for me over a long weekend), drove home, and upon entering the front door of my house (after crossing the lawn), she immediately squatted and pee'd, so of course, I scolded/admonished her pretty good. The next day, after coming home from work, I was standing in my closet changing out of my work clothes, and she again squatted right at my feet, and did it again! I think that was the last time she ever went in the house ...but she was definitely trying to tell me something! Good luck!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Dog is a fine meal.

[Tishabet]

Vash,
You should buy a book called "how to be your dog's best friend" by the monks of new skete. I've been training dogs for several years, and this book is the bible of dog behavior and training, and you will find it on the shelf of most vets and trainers/handlers. I am frankly a little surprised that the BED part of this equation hasn't been emphasized. Let me break this down for you:
1) Your dog peed indoors. This could be for any number of reasons, many mentioned above.
2) Your dog peed on your BED. This eliminates incontinence, being skittish, etc. If it had been one of those, the dog would have peed on the floor. The symbolism of this act is the whole point, your dog is telling you something. This is classic canine behavior for a dog that is very dissatisfied with the owner's behavior. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're a bad owner or that this dissatifaction is a long term thing, but on this occasion your dog was pissed at you...could be that you yelled at her that day, or you paid too much attention to someone else. The long and short is, your dog peed on the bed intentionally to send you a message. This is literally textbook behavior...often on your mattress or pillow is the victim.
Crate training may solve your problem in the short run, but whatever made your dog act out that day will simply be redirected to a behavior that can be acted out in a new way. Better to get to the root of the problem between you and your dog.
Kudos on rescuing the dog BTW... not enough people like you to go around!

[bob tilton]

hey cliff,
looks like people are offering excellent advice while i only offered some poor humor - my apologies to you and the board. can you tell i don't own a dog? good luck buddy!

[CRH911S]

Vash, I didn't intend to insult you in anyway. If you took my comments that way please accept my apology. You are to be commended for rescuing your friend.
I think the missing pieces to your puzzel can be found in the 12 months you did not own the dog. Because of this crate training may not be beneficial because there is no way of knowing if a crate was ever introduced to your dog and if one was how it was utilized.
For example, a 2 month old puppy pees on the living room floor. The owner discovers the mishap 3 hours after the fact. He/she gets pissed off and puts the puppy into a cardboard box (usually located in a kitchen or bathroom and in some instances a locked garage) for the rest of the afternoon to teach the puppy a lesson. If this is the case, and I'm not saying it was, your dog is not going to take to the crate.
I support and recommend the use of crate training for dogs but not in your case. One of the benefits of crate training isn't necessarily the security and privacy of the crate but the location.
My lab came home at 8 weeks to a crate that was placed in a corner of the kitchen. The other day I removed the large breed crate mostly to see how he would respond. Here's what I observed. He walked into the kitchen sat down a stared at where the crate used to sit. So I went out into the garage and got a moving blanket and placed it where the crate sat. Viola, my dog walks over the the blanket, looks around and sniffs it, then sits on it. I left the kitchen area intending to return in a few minutes to see how he was adjusting to the blanket. When I returned he was laying on the blanket. Based on this observation and subsequent practice I think it's safe to say the blanket replaced the crate but that it's located in the kitchen shouldn't be understated.
It baffles me that after 2 years your dog peed on the bed. As to your explanation of events that day I offered dreaming as a possible explanation. I observed my dog barking and running while he's asleep. Running and barking are things my puppy likes to do a lot. So I think it's reasonable to conclude to the possibility that a dog can dream its peeing and actually be peeing.
I think it's fair to suggest you may never find the answer due to the missing 12 months. I disagree with Grant's assertion the dog was pissed at you for some reason as this suggest learned behavior which isn't the case. This may be a quirk and something to live with. Good luck.

[vash]

thanks for all the advice, and the jokes.

i am gonna search for that monk book.

oh, nobody offends me. at least not on this bbs. nothing is taken personal. well, maybe the civet cat thing.

[RickM]

I agree that a crate should be introduced to a dog as early as possible. As Tabs says, dogs are cave dwellers and a crate is merely a den or territory it's comfortable in.
If the dog has been from one home to the next then I'd say your pup is suffering from Separation Anxiety (this came up in another thread). My Golden suffered from this as well. Some dogs freak when their owners leave and rip things apart while others crap or pee.
If you can't address the root cause then a crate or other containment will be needed.
I tried for years to figure Miles out and ended up with a pretty well designed outdoor dog pen for the nice days and a tiled floor covered with thick towels for other times.

[gatotom]

jrdavid58.....you got quite the porno dog, spread out it looks like a lab to me.

Addie should meet my male lab dog, he sleeps the same way

vash....if more people were like you saving dogs and cats that have been abused...well....the world would be like everyone driving P-cars and knowing how to drive them....what a wonderful world.........thank you.

[KFC911]

Originally posted by bob tilton
hey cliff,
looks like people are offering excellent advice while i only offered some poor humor - my apologies to you and the board. can you tell i don't own a dog? good luck buddy!

Bob, I thought that was an excellent piece of advice...but that might lead to an even bigger problem: Where would the dog get a crate big enough for Vash? I mean, it's all learned behavior ya know...

[RickM]

Originally posted by KC911
Where would the dog get a crate big enough for Vash?

Local S & M club?

[KFC911]

Originally posted by RickM
Local S & M club?

Shouldn't be to hard to find in SF...

On a more serious side....what folks are saying regarding 'the earlier, the better' does apply to crate training, but it's never too late. Since the dog wasn't allowed on the bed to start with, I do believe she might have indeed been 'sending a message'. Although I've always crated my dogs from the moment they come home, it's a gradual approach. At first, they're in the crate in 'their room' (which can be blocked off). After a few months, I open/remove the crate door, and confine them to 'their' room, and then later (after they've proven themselves), they are confined to 'their' house (but they let me continue to live there ). It's the 'den thing'...you just keep expanding the size of their den. Good luck Vash, and don't give up!

[RickM]

Set up a hidden camera and get one of those training collars that gives a slight shock and beep via a remote control. When you leave the house watch him/her remotely and use the collar to give negative reinforcement when the peeing starts.
Correcting a dog after the fact won't work because they have no clue what the heck your disciplining them for.

[CRH911S]

Hey par911, sounds like you could use a little crate training yourself. But then again it probably wouldn't matter do to the negative consequences of extensive inbreeding. But that's ok, I meant what I said about unconditional love. Now, go fetch a bone and leave your sister alone.