Any Aerospace Engineers Here?

[onewhippedpuppy]

If so, I'd like some advice. I'm an AE student, and starting to think about what I may decide to specialize in. We have an automatic 9hrs of electives built into our curriculum, designed to allow us to begin learning about our preferred area of specialization. I am already planning on taking extra classes in Catia, since it seems to be the industry standard CAD program, but I'd like suggestions as to what would be most promising courses as to take. Thus far I'm most interested in structures and composites, any suggestions? I'm also going to get a minor in business management, and probably a math minor as well, any other helpful suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[island911]

I would skip the math minor for other electives. (I should say I DID skip a math minor . .. would of had that w/ one more math) Anyway, the Catia will help you get a job, but will be short-lived knowlege. If you can take both structures and composites you'll have a nice balance. (everyone knows engineer can do math . . a math minor isn't going to do squat for you ... unless you want some dull job in a QC dept doing statistical analysis -- you can thank me later

[Drago]

Good call on the composites...stress and composites is a very sought after combination right now and will be for forseeable future. There is a huge shortage of US citizens with both.

Design is fun, but very few large companies allow their engineers to do both. Your either a puke designer or a stress weenie.

If you do choose a design-composites route be sure your using Catia v5. Us v4 loosers (users?) will soon be dinosaurs. As Island said, the CAD packages rotate quite frequently. It's best to get a few under your belt as that is one of the more important criteria for hiring. Companies do not want to spend the money to get you trained on "their" system. Catia, Pro-E, Cad-Key (ancient but still used), and SolidWorks are all good ones to know.

Don't get me started on contractors...we're the worst

[onewhippedpuppy]

I am very much not the type that will be happy just sitting in a cubicle crunching numbers, will the approach I have laid out be sending me down that road? I'd like something hands on to an extent, with some variety.

Drago, what is involved in being a independent engineering contractor? I'd love to be able to do my own thing someday, any advice?

[Eric Coffey]

Originally posted by island911
... unless you want some dull job in a QC dept doing statistical analysis -- you can thank me later

Not an AE (or any kind of E) but FWIW: My uncle is, and eventually took the QC/business/production/purchasing path. Probably not as fun as staring at a screen all day , but...... Nearly twenty years, an MBA, and Six Sigma guru-status later, he is now a VP at Honeywell pulling down $400k++ with LOTS of fringe benefits. In other words, the production/purchasing-side of things can be good to you as well. Good luck!

[island911]

"staring at a screen " !?

nah, structure guys get to break stuff. . . .sure, they "break it on the screen" a few times first, but vibe, ELT, stress/strain to ultimate strength. ..fun stuff.

If money is the goal, tho' . ..

[red-beard]

Study all you can about Statistics. You will need them if you want to advance. If you have any NASA asperations, 6 Sigma will be the way to advance. They have embraced the dark arts in a major way...

If you really want to understand, PM me or Lubemaster...

[RoninLB]

my bud was an aerospace EE project manager. He worked on some very trick fighters.. he always seemed to be involved in exciting projects. don't know if that helps?

[Eric Coffey]

Originally posted by island911
"staring at a screen " !?

nah, structure guys get to break stuff. . . .sure, they "break it on the screen" a few times first, but vibe, ELT, stress/strain to ultimate strength. ..fun stuff.

If money is the goal, tho' . ..

Hey, you of all people should know I was kidding about that part. I have the utmost respect for youse screen-staring enguneerin type guys (and realize there's lots more to it than screen-starin'), I'm just envious.
Now that you mention the "break stuff" part, that would be awesome. One of the coolest things I've seen in my ultra-limited exposure was a failure test on the carbon wing structure of a (experimental) Lancair IV airplane. They did it the old fashioned way by continually adding sandbags until it finally gave up. You should have seen how many sandbags that thing held! Or who can forget that video of a Boeing 7XX wing/spar failure test. The amount of deflection was unreal until.........SNAP!!!

[kach22i]

I'm an architect so this may be out in left field, but if you think you might ever become a private consultant (free lance) or run your own firm one day, look into courses on how to start and run a small firm.

I know you said "minor in business management", but that may not give you enough information for the self starter path.

Keep your options open, I'm talking about one elective here.

[IROC]

Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
Drago, what is involved in being a independent engineering contractor? I'd love to be able to do my own thing someday, any advice?

I'm not an aerospace engineer, but a mechanical engineer that has worked in the aerospace industry for 16+ years (mostly Shuttle payload stuff). Anyway, from my perspective forget about CAD packages, etc., anyone can learn that stuff (Unigraphics and Pro/E myself, though).

The two things, IMHO, that you need to really make a difference in this industry is 1. the desire to jump in and be the person that makes decisions. Be assertive. Make things happen. Most of the big aerospace companies employ large teams of people on projects. Be the one who stands out.

and 2. Be creative. Whether it is analytical techniques or design solutions, the ability to find creative solutions to the problem will put you ahead of most other people. Engineers are very "left brained" and struggle sometimes to find elegant solutions to problems that are outside the norm. Be that person. Take some art classes. Study other people's designs (everything from the way Porsche reacted loads in an a-arm to how the jetway supports are designed while you're sitting on a plane waiting to leave the gate).

Good luck.

Mike

[onewhippedpuppy]

I'm more or less looking at the Wichita market (Raytheon, Cessna, Boeing/ whatever they're calling the part they sold, Airbus, Bombardier/ Learjet), so I don't see NASA in my future. That's the reason for the Catia too, they all seem to utilize it, and I've already taken a Pro E class. Really the only reason I am getting the minor in business management is for my resume's sake, and hopefully it will help me get promoted into a management position in the future, I don't think many successful entrepreneurs learned much if anything in college. Mike, you just gave me my biggest re-assurance, and confirmed much of what I have already suspected.

So in you guy's opinion, would going into structures and composites be a good career path? Also, what kind of stuff would a company typically hire a engineering consultant to do?

[onewhippedpuppy]

I forgot to add, if I can find the time I plan on getting my pilot's license too, Raytheon and Cessna I know give an automatic pay raise if you have it. Plus, it's been a lifelong dream of mine, I've been flying with my grandpa in his Bonanza for as long as I can remember, probably why I'm doing this instead of something easy, like business.

[IROC]

Originally posted by onewhippedpuppy
So in you guy's opinion, would going into structures and composites be a good career path? Also, what kind of stuff would a company typically hire a engineering consultant to do?

I think structures and composites is a good direction to head, but I think that good fundamentals will serve you well in the event you get out in the industry and find that another direction interests you more. Structures and composites is here to stay, though. We do alot of composite stuff here (everything from Delta rockets to new 787 design).

Companies (Boeing, for instance) are only going to hire a "consultant" to perform some task that they can't reasonably do themselves either because of cost or expertise. Typically these people have highly specialized experience in a very narrow field. I wouldn't worry about this much right now.

MIke

[stevepaa]

IROC is correct on consultants. Typically our (Lockheed) consultants are former retirees who have a very specialized niche or were former directors.
There are two paths technical and management. You can only go so far technically. I am about it. There is a money cap technically. If you want to move to the arena where decisions are made for future projects, then you have to go where the money decisions are made, and where the pay is better. That will be in program management and if you really want to do that get a JD. The doors will swing open for you.

[Drago]

There are consultants, which Steve and Mike describe pretty well...and there are are contractors, of which I am (sort of...more of an industry-assist/supplier roll), who are typically hired on to start and complete specific projects. They are better paid than the direct engineers but have lower job security and recieve a lot less benefits-wise. When the project is over you find yourself a new job or go on umemployment. If your good enough and know the right people you can remain in constant employment. I've been "contracting" for over half my career now, with zero time unemployed. I've also managed to stay in the Seattle area the entire time (although I have considered offers across the country as well).

Your typical engineer will have no less than 5, preferably 10 years of varied experience before they go contracting.

Truth be told...with the state of the industry right now (out sourcing) I'd advise you either switch to a different major or finish the eng. degree and get an MBA as quickly as you can. Then take the project management or just plain management route if you have to be in aerospace.

[stevepaa]

Technically, you will not be taken seriously with a BS. Maybe a MS and some specialized work. The highest regarded technical guys here usually have a PhD. When I first started working in my research group, there were two MS, me and an industry giant, and 5 PhDs. No BS.

So unless you really have the aptitude for a PhD, go get an MBA or a JD.

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but that's reality from where I see it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

So what's a JD?

From talking to people around here I don't think I'll have trouble finding a job, is it you guy's opinion that I will just have limited potential with only a bachelors? I have considered an MBA, probably after starting a job with a bachelors and just finishing it on evenings or online.

[IROC]

I only have a BSME and have made it pretty far (one step below the highest technical level possible within Boeing at age 40). I firmly believe that it's not so much the list of letters (BS, MS, etc) but how you leverage and utilize what you know that is really important.

As I mentioned earlier, make sure you've got the fundamentals covered and you'll be fine. If you want to specialize in some research field or concentrate on management then something more than a BS in engineering will really be beneficial.

Mike

[onewhippedpuppy]

A second question then, in light of what some of you have suggested. If I were to plan on getting a MBA, would a minor in business be beneficial? I will be going to work before getting an MBA regardless, I had figured it might help me to get my foot in the door of a management position, am I wrong?