Will he beat me ?

livi · 08-07-2005, 02:18 AM

My brother just bought a ´99 Nissan 200 sx. 4 cyl, 2 litre, 200 Hp, turbo, rear wheel drive, 5-gear manual stick.

Will he beat my stock ´85 Carrera ROW with 231 Hp ?

Who will win the 1/4 mile and with how much time ?

Place your bets gentlemen.

BTW, any hints to how I should pull this of in terms of gear changing, clutch handling etc would be welcome. I would really hate to loose, been bragging to much about the Porsche...

Jims5543 · 08-07-2005, 05:35 AM

Then do not race in a straight line.

Porsche is not a 1/4 mile car it is a Sports Car and it out handle most cars out there.

I preached this until I was blue in the face with the RX-7 crowd, if ever a car was NOT intended for 1/4 mile racing the RX-7 is it. It has no torque down low and is not good from a dead stop. Throw in a few turns and it all changes.

The answer your question. It will be VERY close. You should get him out of the hole and hopefully have enough of a lead to stay in front after the 200's turbo kicks in.

livi · 08-07-2005, 05:45 AM

Jims5543, I am very aware of the short comings of the 911 from a stand still and straight line. Especially with the 915 box.

I am always very gentle from start and I will probably not try this again.

But, this is a serious matter of Petrol head Brothers Competition and there is just no way around it. If I chicken out this will go on HIS long term list of: "Do you remember when...muuhaahaa"- things.

IROC · IROC's Garage

I say go for it. All in good fun, anyway. One thing I've found in endeavours such as this is to make sure you've got the clutch fully engaged before planting your foot on the floor. This makes for a slower take-off, but is much easier on the clutch.

Same with the 1st-2nd (and subsequent) shifts. Try to avoid the urge to slam it into gear. Spend the extra half-second or so and make sure the clutch is fully engaged and then floor it.

I think you've got more than a fighting chance. A 3.2 is a very torquey engine...

Mike

livi · 08-07-2005, 06:12 AM

Right, thanks!

Trying to figure out what I am up against. I know my brother is a better driver than I am, but I have hardly ever seen that car model before. Much less of how fast it might be.

Mind you, I asked him. He just laughed and told me I was `bout to find out. Real soon.

Maybe I can just call in sick..

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Don't race for pinks!

stomachmonkey · 08-07-2005, 08:29 AM

His car is FWD so he's gonna have to fight torque steer if he really gets on it.

Very distracting aspect of FWD when doing stop light runs.

Just watch out that he does not sideswipe you.

Superman · 08-07-2005, 10:54 AM

Unless you slam the gears, shifting the 911 is just balky. In straight line racing these delays (a second, per) make these cars much slower than they would otherwise be. The gearing is all wrong as well. But, you may still win it. And of course, you WOULD win a road race, but I don't suggest showing him that on public roads. And in spite of his "turbo" which will come into play at higher speeds and gears, I think this is where you will also come out on top. You have more horsepower. Don't know who has the weight advantage, but that's significant too. Probably you. Be sure to remove the spare tire, jack, and anything else that weighs more than a gram. Carpets. Keep the r's between 4000 and redline.

artplumber · 08-07-2005, 01:14 PM

Your engine placement is worth @ least an additional 50hp over a front engined car. Trick is a clean start then staying up in the rev band. Could always practice a little?

Saintly · 08-07-2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stomachmonkey
His car is FWD so he's gonna have to fight torque steer if he really gets on it.

Very distracting aspect of FWD when doing stop light runs.

Just watch out that he does not sideswipe you.

Actualy the 200SX is a rear wheel drive car.

stomachmonkey · 08-07-2005, 03:16 PM

Actually looks like we are both correct.

Appears the US version is FWD which shares the Sentra platform.

Looks like Europe/ROW got a completly different RWD car more similar to the 240 SX.

Interesting.

Scott

stomachmonkey · 08-07-2005, 03:25 PM

Tell him to forget the drag race.

Instead, go to the pub and see who gets laid first.

Scott

Jeff Higgins · 08-07-2005, 05:54 PM

I used to be very active in drag racing before I learned about turning and braking. In my experience, the launch determines the outcome between two closely matched cars. In a car that is not a dedicated drag racer, what that means is whoever is more willing to absolutely abuse their car, assuming it can get the necessary traction, will win. Most people agree the 911 was never intended for that particualr brand of abuse.

A "proper" drag strip launch in a manual transmission car means bringing it to redline with the car in first gear, clutch depressed, and simply side-stepping off the clutch pedal. In my 440 powered '69 Dodge Super Bee, that meant 6800 rpm. It would spray clutch dust through the vent holes in the Lakewood safety bellhousing all the way out to the wheel wells and down onto the track. There was this horrific metalic clang that could be heard over the exhaust note, the car would just shudder, and the front end would fly up in the air. I could do that about six times before it needed a clutch.

How close to that do you want to come in a 911? Me, not very. In mine it feels like first gear is all but useless from a performance standpoint. Even with the clutch out and the revs down, if I stomp on it it goes through first almost too fast to grab second without actually backing off a bit. How about a second gear launch? You would have one less delay in shifting, with 1-2 being one of the less smooth shifts in a 915 box anyway. That 3.2 should have the torque to keep the tires spinning just a hair and not bog it down even starting in second.

Bill Douglas · 08-07-2005, 06:01 PM

Just explain that you don't race trashy Jap cars.

Victor · 08-07-2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Douglas
Just explain that you don't race trashy Jap cars.

Well said.

My standard response to the age old question "wanna race" was always "what the f*ck for?!?" back in the Carrera days.

Well, most of the time anyhow. These things can get up and boogie - you just have to be prepared to thrash the bajeesus out of it.

Good luck.

Superman · 08-07-2005, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
A "proper" drag strip launch in a manual transmission car means bringing it to redline with the car in first gear, clutch depressed, and simply side-stepping off the clutch pedal. -

If you try this with a 911, you will just burn the clutch. Sorry, but our cars have weak pressure plates. This method will not get you a good launch. In fact, the 911 cannot launch properly, unlesss some very different clutch parts are installed. This is why I suggest a moving start. Race from 30 to 120 mph. You'll eat his lunch.

jtkkz · 08-07-2005, 10:23 PM

maybe be safer to race him 5-10mph rolling start, then race him to 100mph

good luck

Superman · 08-07-2005, 10:58 PM

Yep. In fact, if you can be in second gear at the start, the contest is over. There is a great distance between first and second in my car. Second, third and fourth are close-ratio. You'd smoke him in a race from 50 mph on.

livi · 08-08-2005, 01:36 AM

Thanks, why didn´t I think of that. Rolling start. Great idea.

I have actually babied the 915 silly up till now and I am not going to risk it over a childish .....but, still unavoidable family pride dog fight.

I can´t postpone it much longer, he is planning on some heavy Japanese mods, giving him approx. 130 extra ponies.

Jeff Higgins · 08-08-2005, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superman
If you try this with a 911, you will just burn the clutch. Sorry, but our cars have weak pressure plates. This method will not get you a good launch. In fact, the 911 cannot launch properly, unlesss some very different clutch parts are installed. This is why I suggest a moving start. Race from 30 to 120 mph. You'll eat his lunch.

The car I used to do this in had a 3600 lb. pressure plate and was still only good for half a dozen of these launches. I mention this procedure as kind of a reality check on what drag racing really entails. If the clutch in a 911 were actually able to withstand this kind of abuse, I would imagine you would just lay out a kind of "exploded view" of a 915 on the ground under the car. Like a few other guys have already mentioned, a rolling start might be the way to go. A good launch makes or breaks a real drag race; in this case, I'm afraid it would just break the car. The ammunition that would provide your brother might prove unbearable.