The value of a hybrid

[theFONZ]

So I was thinking today about how much you could save by getting a hybrid so I decided to do some math.

I compared the Honda Insight (with CVT cause it gets better mileage) with the Honda Civic HX with no options on either, (which I believe is a good comparison) and here is what I got.

Insight / Civic / difference

Price: $19,330 / $13,960 / $5370


Hwy mileage: 66 / 44 / 22


If you drove 300K
miles you would use: 4,545 gal / 6,818gal / 2,273gal


which would cost: $11,362 / $17,045 / $5,683
(at $2.50 per gal)


So in summary if you drive 300,000 miles you would save a whopping $313 dollars.

Looks like good a waste of money if you ask me.

[VaSteve]

Interesting observation. Why did you pick 300K miles? YOu should have done a break even factoring in the incremental tax savings generated in the first year by the $2000 tax credit. A true comparison would be a Civic HX to a Civic Hybrid. It would be cool to see the breakeven, but I'm too lazy to do it myself.


Still, you have an interesting and valid point.

[theFONZ]

I was just wanting to use an amount of miles nobody is likely to get out of either car.

I didn't even know they made a Civic hybrid, but I just went and looked at the stats. The Civic Hybrid is $19,900 and gets 51 hmpg, making it an even bigger waste of money. Oh well.

I would like to know what the break even point is also. I thought about the tax credit, but I also thought you would be paying more tax in the first place and more if you financed (which most would). So it might balance out.

[Serge914]

Then if the gas price double in the next 5 years the break even point make more sense.

Most peoples that buy hybrids do it for the environmental advantage of it also.

[Jeremy Cottrell]

I knew I should have made an offer on that electric 914. It was just too quiet. It needed a Bursch or something.

[1967 R50/2]

You are forgetting the $3000 federal tax credit for buying a hybrid.

[theFONZ]

It's a $2000 tax credit.

If you want to play that game, I did some more math and you will pay $1,046 more in taxes and financing fees which brings us to $954. Also, it's a TAX credit, you don't get a check for $2000 you get to claim it on your taxes to get a higher tax refund (or lower payment). So you may get a $200 benifit out of that. I'm not a tax expert $200 is just a guess.

[theFONZ]

If gas price goes to $5 you would be ahead $5995 after 300k.

[Danskman]

Also, no one ever seems to consider the huge cost of replacing the battery pack after about 75,000 miles. I believe right now the battery pack is running $1500+.

[ronin]

you're spot on, Fonz. hybrids are mostly a feel-good statement and nothing else. there really are no financial benefits unless you were to keep the car very long term. but then you would have to deal with the high price of replacement batteries...

[ronin]

oops, sorry for being redundant, Dansk. missed your post

[HardDrive]

Originally posted by ronin
you're spot on, Fonz. hybrids are mostly a feel-good statement and nothing else. there really are no financial benefits unless you were to keep the car very long term. but then you would have to deal with the high price of replacement batteries...

Ummmm....there is that small matter of the large environmental benefits.

[ronin]

ummm... not even close. the minute fraction of lower exhaust emissions will be more than offset by the impact all of those soon-to-be junk batteries clogging up landfills

[dtw]

Originally posted by Danskman
Also, no one ever seems to consider the huge cost of replacing the battery pack after about 75,000 miles. I believe right now the battery pack is running $1500+.

[HardDrive]

Are they lead-acid batterys?

[Serge914]

The hybrid battery packs are designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle, somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, probably a whole lot longer. The warranty covers the batteries for between eight and ten years, depending on the car maker.

Hybrids use NiMH batteries. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards.

Hybridcars.com

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by dtw

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Co-worker has a Jetta TDI and gets 40 MPG on a bad tank.

On the highway he flirts with 50MPG.

His uncle in Kentucky own a Truck Junkyard and gives him all the Diesel he can store. He goes up to Kentucky from Florida about once every 2 months a loads up. Its a dangerous trip home but he doesnt have to buy diesel.... ever.

He is toying with a trailer to pull to carry it back.

[FrayAdjacent911]

I don't think a hybrid should be considered in lieu of a standard version of the same vehicle.

Meaning, you should think of a person who can afford a Civic, would pony up more money (waste more?).

In my mind it would be more of a comparison of a Civic Hybrid compared to, say, an Accord around the same price.

So if you compare like models, then the savings in gas really won't make up for the difference in price, but if you compare to a similarly priced vehicle type, then there will be savings.

[djmcmath]

A g/f of mine bought a used Insight. I'm sure they get 66mpg new, but as the battery starts to wear, they get closer to 55, then 50, then 45. You'd really have to figure in that mileage decrease over time with the cost of the car.

[FrayAdjacent911]

Originally posted by HardDrive
Ummmm....there is that small matter of the large environmental benefits.

And giving foreign oil sources the finger.