New Hybrid Vs Used Conventional Car?

[jyl]

(I know we already have a good hybrid car thread going, but this is a somewhat different issue so I'm starting a new thread.)

How would you compare the environmental and energy consumption impact of a new hybrid car versus a used conventional car?

For example, suppose the choice is a new Toyota Prius that costs $22K and averages 50 mpg, or a used conventional car that costs $18K and averages 22 mpg.

Of course we can calculate the savings in gasoline and the difference in pollution. But what about the savings in not manufacturing a new car?

I guess what I'm really asking is how much energy and pollution is involved in manufacturing a new car.

My wife wants a Prius because it is "green". I'm a fairly liberal and fairly environmentalist kind of guy, but more than anything I believe in hard-headed analysis. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any data to analyze this with.

Any sources?

[Dantilla]

Last week, I paid $73 to fill my pick-up.

This week, I bought a used Miata for $4500. I'll drive the truck only when I need to carry things.

I'd rather pay $4500 for a fun car than $22,000 for a boring ride.

[FrayAdjacent911]

I think regardless of what YOU buy, that hybrid car is going to get built anyway.

[IROC]

Originally posted by jyl
I guess what I'm really asking is how much energy and pollution is involved in manufacturing a new car.

This is a very valid point, though, because I've heard that more pollution is created during the manufacture of a car than the car itself produces in emissions during it's lifetime.

Mike

[gavinlit]

I read/heard an article/show about a week ago over here stating that if you consider manufacturing energy costs with hybrids and conventional NEW cars it would take something like 8 yrs of ownership of the hybrid before you broke even in real terms. Apparently the batteries & other materials are pretty expensive (in energy terms) to make. Would make it a no contest if you're considering a used car.

[jfw834]

the only reason to buy a prius is to feel good. there is absolutely no money saving factor. In fact, you are getting a cheaply made car that is as slow as a tired snail and paying quite a bit for it just to make a political statement. The avg mpg is not 50 it is has been reported to be more like 40 on all road tests thus far. If you have 18k to spend on a slightly used car you can do a lot better than 22pmg if you want.

You could save tons of money and buy a good slightly used civic. That would still get over 30mpg and be comperable in quality to a prius, would retain it's value well, won't cost a dime to maintain, and is actually decently potent when you need to accelerate.

more importantly along the lines of actual polution created by making one car, i have to agree with the previous response, becuase although this care polutes a lot less while driving, the battery which is slowly dying in side is becoming a small box of toxic waste itself that will need to be disposed of. (not to mention when it dies it will be ~$5000) where are we going to get rid of all these dead batteries in a world of hybrids? and from what i can tell, a hybrid causes just as much pollution as a regular car when being produced.

hope some of this helps.....there are lots of great articles on the prius and hybrids and why they are a great idea but not practical as an economic solution just yet.....

[jyl]

My father genuinely gets 50 mpg with his first-generation Prius.

I've been trying to convince my wife that she should get a 1987-1989 Carrera cabriolet as her around-town car, which is why I mentioned the 22 mpg.

So far, she is supremely unconvinced.

[bryanthompson]

All the hybrids do, in the current reality, is move the pollution from from the obvious place--the car, to one fairly non-noticeable place--the power plants, factories, and landfills that end up with tons of batteries... Think of what goes into one of those batteries, how much processing they go through, and then where they will end up and how that place is dealt with.

In the future, there might be an actual reduction in pollution in the whole cycle, but that'll take a lot of new technology and somehow, non toxic hydrogen cells and more efficient hydrogen extraction to go along with it.

I get kickass mileage in my $6,000 Stratus, and have fun in the 944.

[stomachmonkey]

My stepfather gets 50 in his Prius. I've driven the car quite often and have to say I'm impressed with it. It has good power, certainly on par with any regular car in it's "class".

Now while it's true that it'll take 3 years to "break even" on fuel savings alone that's not the whole story.

He is in Fl and gets a 2k tax credit, free tires for life and gets to use the HOV lane with only himself in the car.

Scott