what do you think the world will be like when the oil fields are dry?

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
I heard an interview on the subject, theory is that China is looking to buy some interest because they feel this is the best way they can learn the technology. Expensive lessons.

afaik from reading business mags the good money is in the search modeling computer tech groups. I think there is 2or3 of them that are big time.

I can't understand why there is not more refineries.. it can't be all politics? Last I heard is that the "just in time" model should only cause short term disruptions.

[M.D. Holloway]

I was just at 3 this week - Chevron, Valero and Norco. Refineries are pretty tough to just open. The engineering, capital expense and environmental (and social) concerns start really handcuffing you these days not to mention the talent pool. Believe it or not, there are not alot of really qualified engineers and plant people for these things. Any out of work chem eng or petro eng is so because they may have some serious mental issues or do not play well with others.

One plant manager was telling me that he did work in the middlebeast at some Kuwaite (sp) refineries and would that they import in German engineers. Thing is they send the germains over here to learn, they go back and are expected to teach them. Bid time waste not tomention the communication gap. Also, many of the guys I know that have spent time over seas will tell you that the Suadi's and the Angolaneze and the rest of the bunch that have plenty of crude are actually pretty freaking lazy and are looking for short cuts all the time. Take that attitude and a talent drain and it is no wonder that they run way below capacity.

[Taz's Master]

If refining capacity were really at a premium, they wouldn't be closing and dismantling refineries here in the US.

[Wrecked944]

Jeeeez...where are the self-styled "capitalists" around here??? I am genuinely disappointed in the Pelicanheads. Whining and arguing about dried up oil fields. Friends, wake up. This is not a problem. It is a giant, golden opportunity staring you in the face. The people who solve the energy "problem" and make America energy self-sufficient are going to become OBSCENELY wealthy. I'm talkin' wealth like all of the 19th century railroad barons combined. Wealth that would make the dot com boom look like a ripple. Solve the energy problem and you'll have a different "disposable" CGT every day for the rest of your life.

So why aren't we talking about ways to profit from this??????? I'm no chemist, but I have some $$ to invest. It is currently slated for real estate. But I'd gladly throw in a few 10's of thousands of dollars to get a promising energy technology off the ground. Who here wouldn't? How many Porsche owners would it take to fund a successful startup?

I tell ya. If I post this same question to the "Business & Investment" forum at ferrarichat.com I know I'll get serious answers. There are some genuine entrepeneurs over there. Don't make me go to the Dark Side to get this ball rolling!!

[Aurel]

Originally posted by JanusCole
[B]

So why aren't we talking about ways to profit from this??????? I'm no chemist, but I have some $$ to invest. It is currently slated for real estate. But I'd gladly throw in a few 10's of thousands of dollars to get a promising energy technology off the ground. Who here wouldn't? How many Porsche owners would it take to fund a successful startup?
B]

I am a chemist. Just send me a check, and I`ll find a way to spend the money

Aurel

[M.D. Holloway]

JanusCole - If you are talking about finding a completely new means to create power i.e. electricity, save your bucks. Richer folks than you have thrown millions at it and it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

If you are looking at new ways to create fuel, now your on to something. There is a plant that just went on-line in the midwest that takes waste from kill plants as well as plastics and other organic junk and convert it into oils and fuels. Last year it almost didn't brake even but with crude over $60/b, it is a very distinct method to generate fuel.

[RoninLB]

for theory only.. if an engine used 91 octane but only needed 89 octane. And then used 89. What would be the increase in millage in %.. rough guess ?

afaik the added additives in high test lower the specific gas vol of the gallon.

Some guys have expended but I don't remember the answers beyond some guys said better millage and some guys said the same millage.

[Wrecked944]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
JanusCole - If you are talking about finding a completely new means to create power i.e. electricity, save your bucks. Richer folks than you have thrown millions at it and it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

Always the capitalist, I actually started a thread on this forum recently asking about producing electricity using biodiesel. And after doing some research, I found it could be done profitably. The equipment is relatively cheap and the legal structures are already in place (in MA). The only catch I found was that my local electrical company pays for the power in "credits" and not in cash. Granted, one of my colleagues at work suggested that they'd eventually have to pay cash if I sued them. But I dont' want to have to sue my customer to get paid. That is just poor business practice. So I dropped it.

If you are looking at new ways to create fuel, now your on to something. There is a plant that just went on-line in the midwest that takes waste from kill plants as well as plastics and other organic junk and convert it into oils and fuels. Last year it almost didn't brake even but with crude over $60/b, it is a very distinct method to generate fuel.

I agree. I actually think we already have a fair number of technologies for producing electricity which just need more R&D (fusion, solar, wind, biomass, geothermal etc etc etc). One or more of them will eventually work out. So while potentially profitable, that path doesn't have the huge $$$ potential of producing a direct dino-fuel replacement. I was talking specifically about fuel. Dino-oil is our national achilles heal. And yes, I know about the folks producing oil from waste products. I was following a comany called Changing World Technologies which already has a few plants online..

http://www.changingworldtech.com/

I really wanted to invest in this company but they are still private and it appears the Buffets are funding them so they don't need my puny dollars.

Anyway, the point is that the potential profit is beyond belief. And if the Germans were able to make synthetic fuel 50 years ago, I simply can't believe it can't be done better today.

And are we not sitting in the middle of a well-educated, affluent, and motivated brain trust here. If it isn't people like us who solve (and profit from) these problems, then who will?

[Mule]

An engine tuned for 89 octane will loose mileage on 91. Octane is not power it releates to ignition temperature. 91 wont burn as completely as 89 if the engine is tuned for 89 hence fewer hp and mpg.

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally posted by RoninLB
for theory only.. if an engine used 91 octane but only needed 89 octane. And then used 89. What would be the increase in millage in %.. rough guess ?

afaik the added additives in high test lower the specific gas vol of the gallon.

Some guys have expended but I don't remember the answers beyond some guys said better millage and some guys said the same millage.

Mule - I actually tested this over the course of a year once. I found a 4mpg increase using 91 vs. 89. I crunched the numbers and it came out to be an exact wash.