The metric system vs. the US

[wludavid]

Originally posted by Christien
While I don't have the physics/chemistry knowledge to say for sure, I don't think F temps can be multiplied in the way you mentioned either (nor K for that matter).

My point about multiplication is the logic of the units:
1 kilometre = 1000 metres = 1,000,000 centimetres
1 tonne = 1000 kilogrammes = 1,000,000 milligrammes
I have no idea how many feet are in a mile, how many ounces in a pound, or pounds in a ton. let alone where those numbers derive from - it's completely arbitrary, is it not?

Again, I'm not arguing the utility of other metric units. I use them and like them.

My point about base-10 and multiplication is that neither C nor F are useful for this. 100 C is not ten times as hot as 10 C, but 100 K is ten times as hot 10 K.

Have you ever heard of a kilodegree celcius? You use metric when you want the math to be easy, and you can't use math in celcius.

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by Christien

I have no idea how many feet are in a mile, how many ounces in a pound, or pounds in a ton. let alone where those numbers derive from - it's completely arbitrary, is it not?

12 inches = 1 foot
3 feet = 1 yard
220 yards = 1 furlong
8 furlongs = 1 mile

437.5 grains = 1 ounce
16 ounces = 1 pound (7000 grains)
14 pounds = 1 stone
100 pounds = 1 hundredweight [cwt]
20 cwt = 1 ton (2000 pounds)

[MFAFF]

Hang to you horses as they rush off down the final furlong developing 1 hp.....

The Us system is a bastard off spring of the Imperial unit system developed in the British Empire....especially when it comes to gallons...

OK the others are the same but volume is a significant deviation.

The metric system is not necessarily a 'scientific' system.. more one driven by the desire sof a certain, vertically challenged Frenchman who wanted to conquer the world... and he did a pretty good job until finally ditched in 1815.

Seriously, Napoleon wanted a system that would be easily applied to his Empire and was not derived from the British Empire... that there was a good scientific basis for it was an good raitionalisation.

Just to be clear the UK uses both, .. the majority of real estate is dealt with in Imperial units... so many square feet, or acres as are many traditional building materials.....like bricks..distance and speed are still officially Imperial but we buy pertrol in litres...interesting.

Road widths are spec'ed in metres and raod curves in metres for imperial speeds.... pretty neat....same for runways...its brilliant.

However we no longer draw in Imperial scales so a 1:100 drawing is exactly that...rather than a 16ft to 1 inch..!?!?

But it does boil down to what you are com fortable with and what you understand.. a bit like languages.

[Rob Channell]

Originally posted by LeRoux Strydom
That is so typically american! So 90% of the earth's population is wrong?

Yes. We are ALL typical here.

Did you hear the one about the statistician that died?
He drowned in a lake with an average depth of 6 inches.

[1fastredsc]

I really wish we'd just do the metric system. I'm taking statics and product development right now, and it really is a b*tch to convert back and forth sometimes.

[Ed Bighi]

Clive Cussler, the fiction writer, made a pretty good statement in the beginning of one of his books a while ago. He basically stated that from that moment all units of measurement in that book and future ones would be metric. His explained that for the United States to maintain its technological standing, not to mention stepping up to the current century and the next when it came to measurements, it was crucial to change over completely to the metric system. He said that our government could take its time, not that he believed it was right in doing so, but he would do his part from now on and ditch the imperial system in the area that he could control. He added that he never liked the system to begin with because it required more thought process in calculations than metric. And because of this he felt that there is probably a substantial ammount of wasted time in all aspects of american design, engineering and productivity as a result of these tiny, but cummulative delays. A fraction of a second wasted here and there adds up lot in the end when one takes account of how many people use measurements in their daily lives. Not to mention the design, engineering, and production mistakes. Well, read the post by 1fastredsc above. After all, even the dumbest person who has never used a tool before can figure out within a millisecond what the next size wrench from a 10mm is. But hey, don't take if from me. Give your wife a 10mm and a, say, 1/2 inch wrench and tell see how long it takes her to figure out what the next size for each is. Cussler ended by saying that he would no longer contribute to America's idiocy in using some outdated form of measurement and that whoever did not like it would not have to read his books. Personally I think the man was right.

But for all those who think that the imperial system is an invention every bit as good as fish and chips, and like fish and chips is as good as it gets, then go right ahead and support it. Heck, go one step further and petition for monarchy in America while you are at it. But the reality is that there is better.

Good read on the subject here
www.metric4us.com/whynot.html

[Fishcop]

Originally posted by MFAFF
vertically challenged Frenchman

A short Corsican actually...

[MFAFF]

Too true....but last I heard Corsica was French.....even back then..

Sorry.. couldn't resist...

[ianc]

The Metric system is so much easier! In college when I was studying engineering our professors told us that in solving our problems we were welcome to use the English system if we preferred it, or we could use Metric. Guess what, no one used the English system after they tried to use it to solve engineering problems. Ever heard of a 'slug'?

Granted, you are definitely most comfortable in whatever system you grew up with; it's your 'mother tongue' of measurements. But still, the English system is antiquated, cumbersome and awkward.

I've heard that a major reason why we don't convert is that all of our machine tooling is in the English system, and the conversion cost would be astronomical. Let's hope we need new machine tools someday...

ianc

[Ollies930]

What it really comes down to is the fact that Joe average does not need to do any more calculations on a daily basis, than what change he should be getting back from the grocery store clerk(BTW: US currency based on decimal system). Anyone with any kind of engineering/ science background will know the value of the metric system and know how worthless the english system is. If any person after a thorough explanation of the metric system does not grasp its simplicity and understands why we should get rid of the english system, is the same kind of person who hundreds of years ago refused to believe that the earth was round. To them I say: You are right, we are wrong, and while we are at it, science is devil worship and the horseless carriage is a tool of the devil. Therefore I wish you luck as you ride your horse and buggy into the sunset.

Oliver

P.S.: I apologize unreservedly for beeing a rude and condescending bastard, but when you are always right like I am, you can afford to be.

[MFAFF]

I'd lay off the 'worthlessness' of the English system...

Its called Imperial for a damn good reason... it was used by a small island off of Europe in the creation of a fairly large Empire.

Its pretty handy when everyone uses it... and a real pain when others do not want to play...especially as the other system allows people of lower mental ability to the same thing faster.

I think 'obsolete' is a more appropriate epitaph.

[Ollies930]

Sorry Guv'na, did not mean to offend your sensibilities, but these here colonists threw off your yoke a long time ago. Unfortunately the metric system had not been invented yet, otherwise it would undoubtedly have been adapted a very long time ago.
The point of the metric system is to let people of equal intelligence solve problems more efficiently and faster. If however your statement concerning mental ability was meant as a derogatory statement directed at me personally, I will gladly match my 141IQ and math/science background against anything you wish to retort with.

Oliver

[djmcmath]

Metric is clearly superior, and we're clearly stuck with English. I mean, my VW Beetle, which is clearly a Metric automobile, uses 14mm nuts to fasten the inch and a half exhaust in place, and the 700lb clutch is held on by 14mm bolts. Even in a purist's car, I'm stuck with English!

[Fishcop]

So MFAFF, does that make a Falklander a Pom?

[MFAFF]

Fish.. too damn right...remember that little fracas in 1982...when the Argentinians invaded the islands.. seems as if the locals were not impressed with being forced to become Argentintian when they had recently voted to remain Uk citizens...


Ollies... ex-colonials exactly... sadly though whilst you chose (very wisely) to throw of the mantle of colonial rule.. you retained its measuring system... yes metric was already around at the time... being hawked by the French... so you could have had it straight off...and been very progressive.... BTW 1776 is not very long ago, in relative terms...

We'll not go down the intelligence route... my comment was not directed at your intelligence..and I think you will find that using the metric system was primarily encouraged to permit poorly educated soldiers perform the artillery calculations more efficiently... as opposed to other resaons..that Frenchman was quite particular about his artillery..

[Ollies930]

Actually....the metric system had not been invented until the early 1790's. A directive from the French National Assembly was given to the Academy of Sciences in Paris in 1790 to devise a standardized system. There five chosen scientists adapted a system based on the decimal system and defined 1 meter as 1/10,000,000th of the circumference of the earth measured from the north pole, travelling through Paris(as if it mattered) and terminating at the equator. The metric system was subsequently passed by law in 1793 and its use made compulsory in 1801.
Therefore the metric system did not exist yet in 1776.
As for my comment that the "imperial" system of measurement is worthless, it is as useful as a 100 year old battleship. It served its purpose admirably, but if put up against a modern destroyer, the only thing left would be splinters.
It does not much matter that the original measurements were derived from royal body parts, but if our mathematics are base ten then our measurements should logically follow suit. If our math were base seven for instance, then I would think that measurements should be base seven as well. the metric system is not perfect either, but if you have something better available to you, why persist in slugging along with something clearly obsolete.

Oliver

[Ed Bighi]

The metric system might not be perfect, not that I ever noticed, but it is the most perfect imperfection that I have ever used in measurement. It is the accepted worldwide standard. There seems to be a consensus over here. Someone should send the link to this thread to someone in charge since there are some excellent points raised.

[MFAFF]

Ollie,

Remember that Imperial monetary system was not metric.....hence having a based 12 measuring system allied to a base 12 financial system was seen as rational....

Outdated perhaps but rational.

As for the origins of the metric system perhaps an earlier date can be placed on the origin of a base 10 system.. say Gabriel Mouton.. another Frenchman in 1670...

His standard was the linear length of a minute on the equator.. and proposed a decimal (1/1000) division of the same to get greater accuracy...his control.. a pendulum of 1/1000 of minute.. counting the number of osscilations in a 1/2 hour time span..

Between1670 and 1675 Picard, Huygens and Burattini propose as a universal standard the length on a pendulum with a 1 second osciallation frequency....now measured as 994mm. As this varies with latitude the equator is selected as the reference plane... as defined in 1747 by La Condamie..another damn Frenchman.

Granted the definition and standardisation of the SI metric system may well have just missed the 1776 date...however Thomas Jefferson did propose it to the US in 1790...at the same time as the French standardised the metre....and hence the whole SI system....

And when was the decimal dollar intorduced? a few years later....

Decimalisation of the monetary system was not accompanied by decimatisation of the measuring system.....hence the current issues.