Small Block Chevy. Yep, dimensionally unchanged since 1955. They are very well designed engines - and the aftermarket has done a great job making sure they are still competitive today.

rjp

Neither, he is talking about a kit car. Read the first page of the thread.

An advantage to pushrods is packaging. The engine doesn't have to be as tall, because the heads are not as tall. Lower center of gravity and less overall weight is a good thing, as is less rotating mass.

There is also a school of thought that you should design something as complex as it needs to be, but no more so. They are getting 500+hp with 20+MPG, and can spin a pushrod engine to 7Krpms. Sounds like the less complex engine met the performance goals.

Tom

500 horsepower from a 427 cubic inch engine, which is about 7 liters, is not that impressive to me in this day and age. That's about 71.4 horsepower per liter. Porsche pulled 282 horsepower out of a 3.6 liter engine 10 years ago. That's over 78 horsepower per liter, and that is from one of the most reliable engines in existence.

Don't get me wrong. The horsepower, by itself, is impressive. I'd love to have it. When I think about it in the context of the engine's size however, I'm not quite so impressed.

When you have big displacement, you can get big horsepower. What's the big deal.

I would assume, similarily, there isn't nearly as much stress at that HP level. There's also the torque curve, of which the Chevy has in spades. Of course, taking into account it's basically the same engine that's been around for 50 years and it's a fraction of the cost to build would be the advantage.

GM just now didn't figure out how to get that kind of HP out of 'em -the knowledge has been there for years. They just never bothered to put one into a production car - that's something we're all overlooking.



rjp

Why?

ianc

Ah. -my bad.

Thanks Tom.

I thought he was refering to a Lotus Elise. (I had been just reading about a Honda version of the Elise)

There wasn't a market for it. Average corvette buyer at the time wasn't as track oriented. Only recently has GM really gone (c5 and later) in this direction. Does cost money to get there. Didn't take much in terms of add-on's to get there. It wasn't a lack of knowledge, it was cost. You can still buy parts for any of the EFI vettes (with the exception of 79-84) both from GM performance parts division or any aftermarket source and get there easily.

Fact- any hillbilly with a dead 3/4 ton Delivery van, and a Summit racing catalog will be able to hit those torque and HP numbers, easily. It's no secret...

rjp

Howdy Scott~

The big deal that caught my attention, is the end performance result. Not the amount of HP or torque per liter.... The fact that a production car made in the USA for $70k, is only a few seconds slower on a long road track in Germany, than the Top Gun from Porsche costing $450k, that is probably next to impossible to buy even if you have the money.....

Porsche is obviously one of the finest engineered automobiles in the world.... But one has to question if you are looking for super car performance, is the CGT really worth the extra $380k more than a new ZO6? With an extra $380k, I could almost buy a 1 bedroom condo in Mission V! :D :D :D

Am I the only one here who is sorry to read this? :confused:

Apparently. Did you feel it was warranted?

ianc

No, I'm sorry to hear it too...

You don't have to look much farther than the one guy who set him off though http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/munky2.gif http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/munky2.gif http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/munky2.gif http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/munky2.gif http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/munky2.gifhttp://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/nono.gif http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/puke.gif http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/puke.gif

Mixed feelings, pwd.

I have been "personally insulted" much worse/more often than Stephan got. . .so have you, as well as many others.

I think that the position Stephan is in (as a writer) is one where he has mostly people kissing his ring ... hoping he writes bullish reviews of their products.

Here, the field is a bit different, IMO; Pelicanites are critcal. They dont simply want to hear all the different written shades of "this just the best it can be." They want to throw their opinion out for some feed-back. Many times contrary to someones rosey needs. --Ouch - was that a thorn? Damn roses. :cool:

Edit; I have appreciated his posts here. I hope he continues to post too. If not, I have his book sitting here, only perused thru so far.

What??? You're telling me that somebody here has insulted me??? Yeah, I know...I'm sure Tabbydoll has posted many insults. But I use the ignore list feature for Tabby, don't read 'em. It's done wonders for lowering my blood pressure. Maybe Steve W. needs to do the same.
Steve? If you're reading this, I'd have a question for you...why do automotive writers choose not to tell readers whether or not a car they are reviewing contains a "black box"? That why you'll never see me buying a new 'Vette, or anything else GM. (all GM products have black boxes, GM has installed them for years now...a recording device connected to the air bag mechanism.)

Not applicable to a boxer. ;)

I also think an OHC engine has perhaps more rotating mass (depending on the design) but possibly less mass overall. I'm not even sure rotating mass is a bad thing, to an extent. My SC doesn't have pushrods or lifters, neither of which are rotating masses, but which do provide additional valve train inertia and slop nonetheless.

ianc

reciprocating mass is what the V8 has in it's valve-train.

Rotating mass is usually more energy efficient. Though, the bottom line is the v8 doesn't need that advantage (apparently)

Thank you! :)

Not to get over 500 HP apparently, but would make more with that advantage I bet though. Would 20-30 HP have made the diff on the ring? :D

ianc

OBDII is in everything since the mid 90s. It is government mandated. It is interesting how much information can be gleaned from these boxes.

The problem is that after mandating these boxes that the government allows them to be used against you in court. A little hard to understand why in the "home of the free" we have a mandatory 'big brother' eye looking over our shoulder. I think that the only thing that the government is bothered by in this arrangement is that they can't hook a ticket printer up to it to issue citations as you drive.

Remember! You aren't a constituent. You are a profit source.

- - - - -
BTW - Someone mentioned that "the Z06 only tied the GT2's time" as if that somehow raised Porsche and lowered Chevrolet. Uhhh, have you priced a GT2? The fact that someone managed to ram this car out the door past the bean counters is astounding.

That said I would never think of buying any of these. They are all WAY too much money for the performance. I could build much more for much less. The type of people who buy these things tend to be the type of people who would never work on the car themselves. They are more apt to polish it with a diaper and to quote specs that they read in the brochure.

You have to get your hands in there to really get a feel for how it works. (Kinda sounds like a heart surgeon doesn't it!)

Ever heard of Nascar? Consistently around those HP#'s and more on less displacement. In practice, it can do that, and a lot more.

The advantage is with all that size is that you don't need to stress the motor that hard to get those #'s= it's not wrung nearly as hard to hit it's #'s.

The moment the Z06 is released watch - someone will hack it and get more, easily. There are c5's (last generation) out there with under 400CI with more power than that.

Can someone give me a link to more info on these 'black boxes'?

Also, we seem to be focusing on the engine. How about the plastic body and the donkey cart rear suspension. Again, it works great, but is this what it is about?

I've done a google search in the past, but never did find a definitive list of which new cars contain the boxes and which don't. I recently read in the newspaper here about a Midwestern State Senator introducing legislation to force the car makers to inform customers about these. He called them the same as having a state trooper riding in the passenger seat. I do know that ALL GM vehicles have black boxes. If it weren't for that? I might be thinking about accepting some of the crazy offers I've been getting for my car & going after a Z-06, strictly for the driving thrill. I've been a Porsche Pusher since 1966, but haven't really liked the new P-car offerings for quite some time, not since Porsche began trading snob appeal and luxury for lightweight performance. Black boxes...another reason to hang on to my "obsolete" old car...