I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

All I hear on CNN is the mayor and other politicians complaining about how the situation is being handled in New Orleans. Also, they complain that there wasn't enough planning for this type of scenario.

WTF, its the biggest destructive force ever to hit the US. How do you plan for that? How do you organize and provide needs to a angry mob of rioting, low income people?

also, how do you predict that many would take to raping and murder? How do you help people when they're shooting at you?

Congressional Black Caucus just hinted the rescue problems in NO were based on race (i.e. Bush doesn't care cause they're black). That makes me so mad I can hardly stand it.

Anyone who believes that is truely an idiot.

There were some reps from the NAACP on the news last night.....playing the race card all the way. Here are the demographics for the NO area. As you can see there are 2.5 times as many blacks as whites. So, yes, there are going to be more black people affected, no way around it.

RACE AND ETHNICITY
Number Pct
White 135,956 28.1
Black 325,947 67.3

Should have done PPI or Pre Purchase Move Here ? insp.
it's below sea level
high crime stats.
few roads in and out
Hurricanes provided on regular basis
pass on this one
oh not to worry Jesse,AL and the posse will have a hay day with this

rika

here's an interesting clip from an interview on CNN with Bubba and GHWB. GHWB sort of dances around things a bit (which is fine), Bubba steps in and spells out what happens and defends GWB a bit. Unfortunately for GWB... he's been a bit akward in his couple of speeches.

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005360.php

if you live in a swamp, you are going to get wet. anyone see the PBS special on this about a year ago?

i wonder if the cable tv is out?

Doesn't New Orleans have the highest murder rate in the country?

Might expalin the viloence.

Yes

I thought Washington, DC held that dishonor.

Violent Crime
WDC: 1627.7
NO: 1273.2
National Avg: 446.1

Property Crime
WDC: 6433.9
NO: 6403.7
National Avg: 4162.2

http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/Default.aspx

The Mayor is complaining about the lack of PLANNING...if thats the case then he WASN"T do his job...

There was a made for TV movie about this same scenerio 2 months ago....if a TV Producer can think this up and we know they aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer then the Mayor shoulda at least gave it some consideration..

20 years ago in one of my engineering geology courses at UCSB, the professor talked about NO for awhile, pointing out that it would take only one direct hit by a large hurricane, and the levees would fail, and we would have a large city under water.

I guess the mayor of NO missed that lecture.

Excerpt:

----------------------
In 2002, the New Orleans Times Picayune published a five-part series on "The Big One" examining what might happen if they did.

SCENARIO LAID OUT

It predicted that 200,000 people or more would be unwilling or unable to heed evacuation orders and thousands would die, that people would be housed in the Superdome, that aid workers would find it difficult to gain access to the city as roads became impassable, as well as many other of the consequences that actually unfolded after Katrina hit this week.

Craig Marks who runs Blue Horizons Consulting, an emergency management training company in North Carolina, said the authorities had mishandled the evacuation, neglecting to help those without transportation to leave the city.

"They could have packed people on trains or buses and gotten them out before the hurricane struck. They had enough time and access to federal funds. And now, we find we do not have a proper emergency communications infrastructure so aid workers get out into the field and they can't talk to one another," he said.

Most of those trapped by the floods in the city of some 500,000 people are the poor who had little chance to leave.
-------------------

Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

I think a lot of the frustration is with the response. I mean, if this were a terrorist attack (one without 2 days warning), we would be _majorly_ screwed right now. With that in mind, even with the 2 days of warning, the response has been completely anemic:

Condi was off buying shoes
Bush showed up for work 2 days after the attack
The National Guard was non-existent
FEMA still doesn't know which way is up, much less what the people need
And the people of NO, no matter what their race or income, are dying, starving, living like animals, and cannot escape

A lot of tax money was paid out over the course of the last 4 years in the name of homeland security to prepare for unannounced terrorist attacks. This act of God was announced in advance. Is it too much to ask of the people in charge to start mobilizing the rescue efforts when they've been told of a coming catastrophe? What have we been paying for all this time?

This otta strir thangs up.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2005-09-02
Friday, September 2nd, 2005
Vacation is Over... an open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush

Friday, September 2nd, 2005

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
www.MichaelMoore.com

P.S. That annoying mother, Cindy Sheehan, is no longer at your ranch. She and dozens of other relatives of the Iraqi War dead are now driving across the country, stopping in many cities along the way. Maybe you can catch up with them before they get to DC on September 21st.

That Michael Moore fella sure is funny. :D

I just turn Micael Moore off....he just likes the sound of his own voice....

Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

How about people helping themselves instead of blaming the government? Join together as a group and create solutions to problems. Instead of panicing and capitalizing on hard times.

My co-worker has "Air America" on. Who is this idiot broad?

Rachael Maddow, She a Bull who loves conspiracy theories. She's filling in for Franken.

It's horrible isn't it:)

Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

I whole-heartily agree with your statement, but not for situations such as this.

- I lose my job? I get off my butt and find another.
- My house burns down and I don't have insurance? No prob, I'll handle that.
- Earthquake turns SF and SanJose into an island 10 milles off the coast? I'll steal enough food to keep my family alive, get the medicine we need, help my neighbors survive, etc. After 3 days though, we better see some helicopters, some troops, some buses, and some fresh food and water from someplace.

Bush is doing everything in his power........................allowing polluting fall and winter blends of gas into the market along with high sulfur diesel fuels and a three week pause on EPA regulations.

Cutting his fund-raising/promote the war tour short by a whole 1-hour. I'm so impressed!

http://www.10news.com/news/4915212/detail.html
Such sacrifices he makes, my hero.:rolleyes:

Interesting interview. Neither GWB or GHWB have ever been able to deliver a good speech or interview in their entire political careers.

Clinton on the other hand was the master of this stuff.

I think he is right in saying you can't predict these problems... Well, you MIGHT have expected the looting, but with the city flooded, I'm not sure what you could possibly do differently than what is already being done.

In anycase, anything that Bill or George #1 can do to help out is a good thing.

As for Moore...well, I'm no neo-con, but even I realize Michael Moore is out only for himself. Trying to tie Iraq to Katrina is specious.

Fellow blame placer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

Why????

I would still deal with it as I could.....I don't EXPECT/DEMAND that anyone take care of me. If they can/do I will be grateful for that help, but it is still MY life. I don't pass responsibility off to the gov or anyone else.

America has be come too lethargic from a constant diet of entitlement. They think that they somehow DESERVE to have everything they want handed to them.

Let me ask this....if there was not a disaster but you lost everything and could not even afford food/water. Would you still DEMAND that everyone else take care of you? Oh wait......I already know the answer.

Absolutely no one want to take responsibility for their own life anymore. It is always a race to find the best place to pin the blame. I know the situation is bad. I have and will send what aid I can but what pisses me off is that there is very little gratitude being shown for the help being sent. All I see is people complaining that "It's not enough" or "It was not quick enough". Be thankful that we even have the ability to do anthing about it at all.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

Uh, No you don't. Individual problems get handled by individuals. Disaster on this scale is handled by society and in particular, by the government to which we pay taxes to provide for the common welfare.

10-20 thousand people isolated at the superdome should have been moved by Tuesday.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

So because you pay taxes you have no responsiblity to fend for yourself?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

First, "Disaster on this scale" means that it will take time to clean up, yes?

Second, Do you really think the gov and society is doing NOTHING about this? Also I was not saying that the gov and society SHOULD do nothing, rather that people should not get so bent out of shape when they don't get the immediate solution to thier problems dropped from heaven.

Last, "10-20 thousand people isolated at the superdome should have been moved by Tuesday." Not even army troop that are prepared to mobilise can move in 1 day. You expect to move that many people completely unplanned in the same time?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

{BUZZER} ENNGGGG!!!!!!

"Personal foul on the lobster. 10 yard penalty. 2nd down."

I've seen the "complaining" too and the words are tough to swallow. I don't like a leech anymore than you do. The emotion is frantic, uncontrolled, and desperate, and I don't blame you for not wanting to help them, I wouldn't want to either.

But! The suffering is real, the pain is real, and I try to live by a little saying that goes like this:

"Priciples over personalities"

Just because someone acts like a doushe-bag doesn't mean they don't deserve some help. If they are shooting at you, thats one thing, but if they are just pissed off, thats something different.

And there are mechanisms in place to help Americans in times of need such as this. Black Americans, white Americans, rich, poor, angry, grateful, dangerous, and the rest. We pay for these services, we agreed to make them, and we trust them to operate. If its pork, if its not needed, we cut it and kill it and move on. Those mechanisms, I believe, have failed miserably and in a time in our nations history when they should be stronger than ever.

STRONGER THAN EVER.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

And to what exactly do you attribute the failure of these mechanisms? Bush no doubt. Has it occurred to you that maybe it is because 1.) we have not "If its pork, if its not needed, we cut it and kill it and move on. " and 2.) filled these mechanisms with people who LIVE off them.

I was NEVER suggesting that they don't need/deserve our help. Simply that the attitude apon receiving that help could use LOTS of improvement.

The Mayor speaks:

http://www.atypical.net/mm/nagin.mp3

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

Are you in touch with reality?

Here's reality. You and your family are standing in or maybe on top of what's left of your home. Almost the whole city is underwater, often to your waist or higher. There is no electricity. There is no phone, cellphone, internet. There is no drinking water. If you had a car, it is gone. The roads are underwater anyway. The food, clothes, etc in your home are underwater. The baby's diapers and food are underwater. Your parents' medicines are underwater. You're hearing shooting, seeing fires, hearing reports of armed gangs. You occasionally see police or Guard passing by, but they're not stopping/staying and they won't pick you up. After a day you were really thirsty. After three days you are really hungry. The baby, the little kids, and the old folks are doing a lot worse. There's dead bodies laying around, it stinks of sewage and feces, and its either bloody hot or its raining.

What do you do? If you're young, male and strong, maybe you start walking, trying to escape the city on foot. You have no idea how many miles you will walk or wade or swim before you find water, food, shelter - 10? 20? - but you might make it. If you're a woman, are you going to try it? Oh, do you leave the little kids and old folks behind?

Do you need help? I'll bet you do. Did you expect help to come in an hour or a day? Of course not. But it's Friday now. Are you wondering what the heck is going on? Hell yes! Oh, by the way, you've been cut off from news for days, you don't know that there's several hundred thousand refugees and you haven't heard officials saying they've sent X thousand Guardsmen and Y thousand tents. You don't have the "big picture". So, yeah, you're pretty frustrated.

Think before you post, man.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

And that's the thing. There are all these people a day or two later thinking that the gubmint is going to rush in to a place with no airports and one half passable road and evacuate 50-100K people half of which are cut off from passable roads. No one, can mount that effort. Look at how long it takes to build up forces - for instance in the case of Iraq, months before you expect to need them.

Too many people with the "me" as the most important thing. That's why there are looters taking TV's and Nike's and threatening hospitals and healthcare workers for food & meds. No government could respond in less than a week to a cataclysm of this magnitude.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

Have though....for many days now. Living in CO, most of the time in the small towns, you learn to depend only on yourself. Your reality above is very bleak, but it can be dealt with. The human body is very strong unless you have forgot. Most people can go for more than a week with no food. Water is the most important followed by shelter from the environment. Concentrate on these things first. I have done several "survival" traning exercises. Go out into the mountains with Nothing but what you have on. Most cases only a few things including a pocket knife I always have. It is possible to life for days like this. I have done it...even in the winter. It is not fun...but you do what you have to. Again I say, If I was put in that position, I would make the best I could of it. Do you propose that instead I give up and EXPECT someone else to fix it for me? As long as I was breathing, I can influence and work to make things better. This is not the typical attitude you hear which is sad.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

I'm not saying that they don't deserve help. I'm saying help yourself untill help comes and don't waste your time b_itching about the way the government and FEMA misshandled the situation. I think your missing my point.

Yeah, I guess "someone" should have forced all the dwellers of NO to move to high ground years ago. Or I guess "someone" should have bought every person in NO their own personal airboat in case disaster strikes. Or I guess "someone" should have stationed 1000 helicopters just outside of any potential storm just in case. Or I guess "someone" should have stationed 100,000 troops w/ food and water to sustain people in 3 states for 1 month just outside of a potential storms reach.
Or I guess "someone" should have the power to snap their fingers and instantly locate every single person in need over a 3 state area and instantly transfer them to 5 star hotel or cruise ship. I think "someone" should also mandate that every person w/in 100 miles of any coast needs a full SCUBA outfit in case mother nature floods their homes.

All of the above was directly overlooked by W (Clinton wanted to do all of the above but the evil republicans denied him)

All of the above needs to be ready to set in motion at the drop of a hat and needs to be set up along the entirety of all US coastlines just in case. Why did W let this storm hit? If he really cared about the people, he would wade thru that city and lead and carry those folks at the Superdome out by foot! All other tens of thousands folks thru out the area (like the people on ventilators in hospitals and such) should have been overlooked entirely until every Superdome refugee was safely and comfortably living in a nice Astrodome somewhere (at least until they trash it). Everyone knows that the poorest people deserve the best care, it is the fair way. (that is what we pay taxes for right?)

Wow, this was easy to make up and spew lefty logic, no wonder they do it so often.

We were discussing this at my shop today. The very poor there are textbook "welfare families". They have been conditioned for atleast two/three generations that someone will/should care for their needs. I'm not blaming them, it's human condition...I'm just pointing it out.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.
 

I guess that's why they tell you to have at least 3days worth of supplies on hand, and preferably a week. But of course, since you didn't listen to the mandatory evacuation order, you didn't listen to the other recommended disaster info.

Ditto on the think before you post.

PS You will note that on the third day things are changing in terms of mobilization for transport and necessities?

Just curious. How do you pick up and carry three days or a week worth of supplies, the irreplaceable things from your life, any infirm relatives, children, etc. and then know where to go when there is no plan in place to inform you?

I think a lot of folks here are imagining every person left in NO is an able-bodied adult.

The folks who stayed behind and had mobility enough to leave bear some responsibility for their plite.

The folks who did not have that mobility to leave however have my deepest sympathies. Which are utterly worthless; The local governments should have (I don't know that they didn't) done their best to ensure an evacuation of those folks.

It looks like a simple evacuation order for a CATAGORY 5! Hurricane was not heeded. I've been through more than a few hurricanes having spent about 5 years in and about the Florida area. I have lived on the panhandle and been through hurricanes there. Anything more than a Cat 2 and you really should get out of dodge and if you're on the coast a Cat 1 means you get batten down the windows and get a hotel way inland. THERE IS NO POINT TO STAYING BEHIND! Hotels in an emergency will take your pets as well shelters. I can't believe how many folks I heard were staying behind because of their damn cats.

We need military help out there; these people simply need someone with a megaphone to boat around and let them know that help IS on the way and that they just need to be patient. Then they need to put some procedures in place to get folks who are stuck some kind of temporary supplies but leave them where they are as long as they are safe.

Well; that's enough of my armchair antics I suppose. 20 years in the boy scouts have taught me one thing; Be prepared. For the last few years I've let that slide. No more; I told the wife last night we're going to make sure that we can survive for a week at least, we'll be able to survive AND defend ourselves.

The memories and irreplaceable things are frankly expendable in the face of a CAT 5 hurricane. It's a hard thing to walk away from and it's sad day that happens - that's why we keep our pictures and videos backed up on CDs and DVDs. Easy to carry in the size of a big book.


You get prepared before hand. We need to get back to the 50's mentality where everyone has their own bomb shelter (well, the supplies part at least).

ALWAYS store your survival supplies in water tight containers.