Calling all real home electricians. I've got a problem.

[450knotOffice]

All right all of you real electricians out there. I have a problem. I'm doing a kitchen renovation. I am putting a cabinet up on a previously blank wall that has a plug on it. I decided to simply remove the plug, cap off the wires with screw-on caps, shove all of the wires back into the box and cover it with a blank cover.

The problem is that two lamps near my kitchen sink no longer work. I'm guessing their power went through the plug. OK, I thought, no problem. I'll simply reconnect the plug and be right back where I started.

Hmm. Now I'm fairly good with electricity but I'm not quite up to the task before me. What I've got in the box is three bundles of wires. Each bundle has a black and a white wire. Two of the bundles have each black wire tied together and each white wire tied together so that they then produce ONE black wire and ONE white wire. The other bundle, the third one, is by itself.

Ok, so here's the switch setup for the two lights over my sink: Over on the wall I have one light switch. This light switch controls the power to two other light switches, each of which controls one light. In other words, if that single switch is off, the other two have no power. If it's on, they both have power.

Back to the wall. Only one black wire has power. It's the one that is the result of the two black wires being tied together. The other black wire in the other bundle shows no power. Interestingly, not only do both white wires seem to be ground wires but when I hook my multi-meter between the two black wires (the one with power, and the one that seems to be dead), I get a completed circuit, i.e., I show 110 volts.

What the heck gives?

All I want to do is get power back to my lights but I'm stumped as to how to hook this combo back to the plug.

BTW, the plug worked normally before this, as did the lights.

Ideas?

[Alan Cottrill]

was the plug switched, or was it always hot?

[450knotOffice]

The plug has been hot as long as I've lived here. Now that doesn't mean that it might have always been that way. What I mean is that my wife and I changed out all of the plugs when we moved in. It's possible I could've buggered up a plug that was switchable originally.

However, since I changed out the plug six years ago, it's been hot at all times.

[competentone]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
... so here's the switch setup for the two lights over my sink: Over on the wall I have one light switch. This light switch controls the power to two other light switches, each of which controls one light. In other words, if that single switch is off, the other two have no power. If it's on, they both have power.

Back to the wall. Only one black wire has power. It's the one that is the result of the two black wires being tied together. The other black wire in the other bundle shows no power. Interestingly, not only do both white wires seem to be ground wires but when I hook my multi-meter between the two black wires (the one with power, and the one that seems to be dead), I get a completed circuit, i.e., I show 110 volts.

Call an electrician. It sounds like someone had (or tried to have) a three-way circuit to control the lights. It sounds screwed-up enough that it's not something that should be diagnosed on an internet forum.

Also, are you dealing with wiring old enough that you don't have an independent ground? (Is there a bare copper wire in your switch and outlet boxes?) If you have old wiring, then your kitchen renovation should include updating your wiring. Cut back on some of the cosmetic stuff and do the critical "mechanicals" first.

Too many times I see people with outdated and dangerous electrical wiring spending thousands of dollars on fancy flooring, countertops, cabinets and trimwork and ignoring the critical mechanicals.

To put it in car terms: Would you get a new paint job and ignore or "patch up" a faulty braking system?

Joe

[450knotOffice]

I'm leaning toward your suggestion. I was simply hoping some electrician would see the description and say "yea, I know that setup. Here's what you do..."

As for the house, it's 34 years old but has relatively modern wiring with the independent ground you mention. It's no 50 to 100 year old house. Plus, we live out in the Southwest where it's normaly pretty dry and corrosion free.

[dad911]

You may be reading 120 volts between the two blacks because there is a 'load' on one, such as a light bulb, and the other is hot. If you unscrew the bulb (disconnect the load) you will read zero volts.

Measure the voltage on each individual line coming in to the box. I suspect if the only device that was in this box was a receptacle, that there is one line feeding the box, and the other two branch off to two other circuits. If this is the case, you should be able to just connect all of the blacks together, all of the whites together, and the grounds together.

Work with the power off, and don’t burry the junction box behind a cabinet.

[450knotOffice]

You were right. Problem solved. The other two black wires were feeder lines to the two light circuits.

Thanks guys.