The city sez I can build a garage. Now what?

[Wrecked944]

So here is the deal: I called my city zoning office to ask about building a large shed on my property. The person I spoke to looked up my property and said I'd need all kinds of zoning variances in order to build a large enough shed to meet my needs. However, she added that I am already zoned for a GARAGE.

Hello?

I had no idea. So she explained I'd only need to apply for a permit and a water drainage study and I'd be able to build (up to) a 750 square foot single level garage with no need for special exemptions. Yeeeehaaaaa!!! I almost fell out of my chair. It is like Christmas came early this year! So now I am seriously contemplating this project. Here is a picture of my back yard...



The camera was level when I took that shot so you can see what kind of incline I have. I can pave the area to the right of the stone wall, dig into the hill, and build a two or (maybe) three car garage. This would allow me to protect the p-cars from the elements and provide off-street parking for my tenant (of course then I'd have to install a lift and buy a 911 roller ). It would also greatly reduce the area that I have to mow every friggin weekend. I spoke to my property manager and he is gunho on the project and believes it would greatly enhance the property for rental and/or sale.

But I've never built anything in my life. I am hoping this can be a learning experience for future construction projects. So I am starting here, where I always go for answers, to seek advice. I figure the easiest way to build would be to have a professional dig into the hill, pour a concrete slab and then buy a couple of tons of conrete block and go to town (maybe I can lay the block myself?). Am I correct? Am I biting off more than I can chew? I've also seen ‘bolt together’ steel garage kits for sale for $5k - $10k. Or is it better to attempt a stick (or steel stud) built thingy? What would you guys do if you suddenly had some spare land that was crying out for a garage? I’m pretty clueless but very excited!

[Shaun @ Tru6]

You definitely need a new best friend! What kind of beer do you like?

[Joeaksa]

Go big. Put lots of power and water in the puppy and make it like Cary in Montana did with heated floors and such!

JoeA

[MikeSid]

Check out Cary's thread. It will give you lots of ideas. I didn't plumb the building for water/toilet and that is my only regret. I thought that would be a bit much. Joe is right, go big. I was able to get just under 500 sf approved for my lot. If I was given 750 to work with I'd go nuts with it!

Cary's thread....

My Porsche Play House has begun

[techweenie]

The bolt-together steel buildings are a super-economical way to have a 'done' building (on top of a foundation) in two weekends. Watch eBay for deals. There are about five marketers in McKees Rocks PA that sell 'em. A 25 X 30 building will give you what you want. You'll need to either landscape like crazy to hide it from your neighbors or plan to 'skin' it to make it more attractive.

The one I bought was here: http://www.americansteelspan.com

[URY914]

Go to this website, join and ALL your questions will be answered..

http://www.garagejunkies.net/index.php

[vash]

sweet!

janus, if you dig into the hill, part of your garage will be built into it right? so will that wall be a "retaining wall" also? moisture will weep in. if it were me, i would go at this garage, as a final structure. pony up a few bucks to hire an engineer. lots of water is going to come down that hill....

[MFAFF]

Great project....and pretty easy.

As Vash says.. hire some design help.. either an architect an engineer....

Cutting into the earth will be easy and once you have installed some decent underslab drainage I'd tend towards a masonry superstructure... block walls, with a proper waterproofing installed on the outside...over some decent rigid insulation, also no the outside.. to stop condensation internally.

I'd also envisage a double skin wall below grade level.. either two layers of block with a cavity or a decent dry lining system spaced off the inner block face.

Install decent power and drainage straight away... even a WC stack.. you just never know..

If you can afford it I'd go for a 'green roof'.. one on which you can have a layer of topsoil and grow something on it.. additional structural load but it will blend it in.. and provide additional thermal resistance... meaning it will be cooler in summer and warmer in winter in there.

If you can afford underfloor heating then go for it.. its the most economical to run.. in order to keep temps steady and the whole place dry...however you'll need a rapid heater in addition if you want ot work there in winter otherwise your costs will shhot up... say a conventional panel rad on a timer.. so it starts getting warm early on Sat morning in time for you to hit the car after breakfast....

Keep us posted...

[Wrecked944]

Thanks for the replies! If I manage to do this without destroying half the neighborhood and winding up in jail, I'll have to hold a Pelican wrenching party!

As for the landscape, I think the zoning person was implying that I'd need to have an engineer inspect the whole thing. The hill is a non-trivial incline and water drainage will definitely be an issue. I guess in my deepest fantasy I was hoping to build an "earth bermed" structure to minimize heating and cooling costs. Mother Earth news had an aticle once about building a house half-buried in a hill using a slab and concrete dry stacked block. It looked like a really sweet idea but it made my back hurt just reading about it. However it clearly has heating/cooling advantages. But growing grass on the roof was probably more than I anticipated!

I must confess I had not yet considered things like heating and electricity. I was staying focused on getting walls and roof (steel vs wood vs concrete etc). But I guess I have to include the rest of the stuff before I start building, right? Glad you guys reminded me.

Techweenie, I'll definitely consider a steel building. Seems like a project even a moron like me can do. But I wonder if it will play well with the bits below grade. Hmmm...

I just ordered a few books on the topic from Amazon.

URY914: Wow. All I can say is wow. I thought we were obsessed with a narrowly focused hobby. But those garage nuts are even crazier!

[Wrecked944]

BTW - I have searched the internet a lot and never found an adequete book or website that said "Here is how to build a building from concrete blocks" or "Concrete Block Structures For Idiots". I see lots of concrete block buildings in my area - but no "How To" books. If you want to build a stick frame building, then there are books galore and stamped plans for sale etc etc etc. But for a simple concrete garage, nada. Am I just looking in the wrong places or is it just so easy that instructions are not required? (Somehow that last option seems incredibly unlikely)

[MikeSid]

Fine Homebuilding does a good book on concrete work. I have it at home. It's got a good section on concrete block foundations and walls. Amazon has it. And it should also answer a lot of questions on placed concrete and radiant in-floor heat, etc etc.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1561581828/103-8586484-2892616?v=glance

[gaijindabe]

How about a picture of the main house? We are looking for a compatable structure here..

[Wrecked944]

Here is a pic of the main house. The garage would be hidden in the back so a coat of red paint would probably be sufficient to blend in.



Man, I just read through the entire thread about Cary's garage. I am overwhelmed. That stuff is just way too far over my head. I was thinking of installing walls and a roof and some big doors...and maybe run an extension cord from the house LOL - basically a big shed that could hold my cars. Installing a simple air powered lift was the limit of my fantasizing. But Cary's garage is insane. He has it plumbed, 220v electrical, heated floor, attic space...off the charts. OMG...I may need to tackle this in stages. That stuff is so seductive but I don't know that I am ready for such a huge undertaking.

Oh yeah, and I should point out that this house is an income property. I live in the tiny 840 sqft apartment on the second floor only because it is the smallest unit I own. So I am maximizing my rental income. That doesn't mean I need to skimp on the garage - but it should be noted that this is not my "dream home" and that the garage is ultimately intended for the use of my tenants after I move out. So installing 440v and an underground monorail system might be overkill.

[makaio]

Congrats! Once you have your garage you'll wonder how you went for so long without it. My only advice is to plan on spending 15-20% more than you originally planned. I planned on $20-25,000 for my 24 x 36, and it ended up costing around $30,000. But it's done, and that included my 48" mid rise lift.

[lateapex911]

First, congratulations...I do the same thing...live in an apartment and rent out the bigger half, as well as another house.
Some thoughts, random and certainly not complete, LOL

Don't skimp on the architecture...choose the simpler parts of the house and copy them...the value will be returned. In other words, same siding, window proportions, roof pitch and trim detail.

Make it slightly bigger than you think you'll need. So, if you are doing a two car, make it a two and a half. I have a two car and it might as well be a one car once you start working on the car!

If you can do radiant, fine, but it will be pricey. You MUST heat and insulate though...I know where you live....it's WAY too cold in the winter..not just for you, but for chemicals you use. I put a Modine hang on the ceiling unit in and it heats the shop in no time. It was about $700 at Home Despot, I converted it to propane as I don't have gas.

Lighting....go overboard, LOL. It's NOT that expensive, but don't get the cheap units either...they just don't last. The tranformer/ballast/starter/whatever goes and is more than the fixture to replace, LOL. Think seriously about putting in a flush ceiling light low on the wall.....it makes a big difference working on the car to be able to see!

Also, paint the walls a light color, NOT flat, but something like eggshell minimum for ease of cleaning. Go neutral colorwise . Maybe a white gray combo if you want to get fancy. Paint is cheap.

I think a great solution for the floor is VCT ..vynyl composite tiles. They are about .69 cents a foot, come in EXACT 12" x12" squares so they can be used for measuring things as well. Easy to clean, and sweep. I went with a 4' x 4' grey/off white pattern for a less boring look, but still kept the good light reflective properties for working under the car.

If you think long term, you might want to dormer out the upstairs and finish it eventually. You can use it as an office, or even rent it out if you put an outside entrance in. An extra $500 a month is nice.

Closets. Make some big ones. Store stuff out of dusts way in them.

Get a compressor...a big roll around is good. Use black pipe or copper to put in a few outlets and pay attention to proper drainage etc. I put my compressor up stairs, and built a little closet around it...now you can hardly hear it. Use a flex hose between the shaking compressor and the fixed piping.

Insulate, and get good insulated doors. For the cold?? Sure, but more for the noise. When you have a DE or race coming up, and you need to pull a late nighter and make noise, no worries about anyone hearing you grinding away. I can't overemphasize the importance of noise control. You will feel "free" knowing you can do whatever, whenever!

Have an electrician run the service out to the garage when you put it in. An extention cord just won't cut it. On the wall, put in 4 outlets per box, and tell the guy to run 12GA 3 wire to them, and then use gray and white outlets. Back at the breaker box, use the 3 wire to run two circuits to each box. That way you can use more tools at once without fear of tripping a breaker. Thats a neat cheap idea. Put the heater, any AC, the compressor on their own circuit, and put the lights on two. This way you won't be in the dark because your tool tripped the same breaker the lights were on. Put some outlets iin the middle of the ceiling ..I am amazed how they get the most use in my shop.

Hire a mason for the pour/block work. They can do it for less than your time is worth most probably, and faster too. it's NOT easy work either.

When you pour the slab, think carefully about drainage. They will have a standard amount that they will want to do, but you might want the floor to be flatter for future corner weighting. I think you WILL want it to slope to the door, but maybe less than standard. Be careful CODE issues can arise here.

The final thought..if you are or aren't pulling a permit...(all the inspections are a HUGE PIA) either way, insist on code quality work from whoever does anything. And hire a plumber for the gas work unless you REALLY know your stuff. Same for electrical.

Running water might get you in trouble codewise, depends on your town, but be prepared to go without. Certainly a toilet would be nice for a future office rental, but will be a huge red flag to the town. They might be cool, or not....ask gently, LOL. If you have your own septic, get a professional opinion on whether it will comply with code if you decide to do it all "under the radar" so to speak.

Good comments on money up the line. It WILL cost you more than you planned, even after you plan!

In terms of construction technique, I recommnend a poured wall in the hill area and stick construction over that. Good comments on proper drainage form the hill. Seal the foundation well, and run underground drainage to daylight. Use gutters back there too....no sense pouring all the roof water right where the hill water is collecting! Fianl grade AWAY from the building. Some love roof trusses, and they are fast and cheap, but you lose valuable storage area, and if you ever want to turn the area above into useful space, the trusses most likely get ripped off.

Finally, put in some "cool" stuff, like TVs or satelite radio. I have the satelite radio in my shop and it is awesome.

[Wrecked944]

Originally posted by lateapex911
If you think long term, you might want to dormer out the upstairs and finish it eventually. You can use it as an office, or even rent it out if you put an outside entrance in. An extra $500 a month is nice.

Wow, thanks for all of the advice. This is why I praise this forum so often. Having a finished upstairs is a VERY seductive idea. Not so sure about the zoning, though. I am zoned as RS-7...my lot is 9,570 and I already have two units (i.e. upstairs and downstairs apartments in the main house). The house next door has three units so clearly it can be done...I may need to talk to my property manager about this...I suppose I can get a permit for a garage, build it, and then get a seperate permit to add an apartment upstairs? If I do it all at once, would this not mean I'd be getting a permit for a whole new house (albeit a small house) in my back yard? Hmmmm...this opens up a whoel new area of research. Adding a third unit on my existing property would be extremely cost effective.

[lateapex911]

Yes, but do your research...it would suck to build and plan on a third unit, then find out later you can't add any more plumbing.

The plumbing, BTW, will be a large cost item. You'll have to dig and tie into a sewer likely, and you aren't going to slide that by the city, LOL. Due diligence is called for here.

If you are on septic, and you have a newer field that is oversized, you could be golden. Or they might OK an office, but NOT an apartment...less water use with a small office. An offce might be a better match for you usage wise. Having someone in the same building can get tricky with gas smells paint smells, burning smells, grinding banging and no exhaust noises...at least thats what my shop is like!

[Wrecked944]

Well, I called the city and they shot down the third unit idea right away. Seems I am already non-compliant with my zoning because I have two units on a single family property - but I am grandfathered for those two units and only those two. So a third unit is not in the cards. Oh well. And yeah, I am on city water.

I also learned that I can build a detached single story garage up to 15 feet tall. Not a bad deal. Or I can build an ATTACHED two story garage up to 35 feet tall. Hmmm...I had not considered making a full blown addition to the house. Seems I may not be able to add a complete new unit but I am allowed to add more space to the existing units as part of a garage project. And that would move the structure closer to my house and avoid the need to dig into the hill - a big plus. The upstairs could become a new room on my apartment (almost doubling the size) and I might be able to swing an extra downstairs room for my tenant (or enlarge her second bedroom).

So the options appear to be...

1) Fifteen foot detached 2 car garage half-buried into the hill with paved outdoor parking space between house and garage.

2) Two story attached 2 car garage with living space added to my upstairs unit and to the downstairs unit and no hillside digging.

I asked my property manager to spec out both options. If they are aprrox the same price, I may go for option #2 unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.

Man, this forum rocks hard.

[MikeSid]

They won't be close to the same price....but that shouldn't necessarily keep you from doing it. Added living space adds value too, even if you can't rent it separately.

The difference is that the city (and probably fire dept) gets a little nervous with additional living space. A garage is a no brainer. No one sleeps there. You can plumb it, but it won't require a certificate of occupancy, and multiple inspections. You can add separate heat to a detached garage and you don't have to tie into the existing house HVAC. It's really a lot more work....not to mention the finish grade materials that your primary residence likely has. I see a lot of moldings and woodwork involved if you want to match the rest of that house. It looks very well built and that type of old school construction these days isn't cheap.

So...I don't mean to rain on your parade, but if you're adding a 2 story living space, prepare yourself for probably 2x to 3x the cost of a 2 car detached garage and at least doubling the construction time. It's still a good option, just be prepared for a bigger bill.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[lateapex911]

Yeah, Mike is right. it will be way more to do the addition as opposed to the free standing unit.

Also, you like in one of, if not THE most code conscious states in the nation, so there will eb some hoop jumping that could happen.

Your addition is not only more materials (taller), trickier to build, (you DO want to match the house construction, cool house by the way), but it has a LOT more detailing inside...the interior finishes are what can take a lot of time and money on a project like that.

Keep us in the loop!