Americans are sissy’s!

[scottmandue]

Everywhere I look I see these shiny new economy cars, so new they don’t even have their license plates yet! Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Kias, Hyundais (oh my!)…
And this in fashion conscious Los Angeles… Don’t these people know that SUV are the shizzel (spizzel… dizzle???)
Don’t they know it is better to LOOK good than to feel good!
This country has lost its backbone!
Conspicuous consumption is what makes this country great!
Why our good American auto makers have been up late night designing gas guzzling land yacht for us and this is how we treat them?
Disgusting!
We should be ashamed of ourselves!

[techweenie]

They've spent all their money buying superfluous apostrophes and can't afford large SUVs anymore.








(it's spelled sissies)

[Loquat15]

Its just like politics in a way... Say the automotive industry is one big political party... like say... republicans. They want all the votes they can get so they make cars for everyone.

So whats wrong with that? If people want economical cars they buy hondas or some cheap american car or whatever import. If people want something big that say... can protect themselves and their family, they buy a big car that guzzles gas. If a person wants to go fast and be flashy, you've got a large selection out there.

Hell, I bought my 944 just because I thought it'd be cool to own a Porsche. After realizing that I bought a car that has such a presteigous name but sorta lacks as far as the performance goes (ie engine), I realized "Hey! I need a faster one... i'll go with the flow... a 911!" so thats where im at right now. Gas prices arent too bad...yet. Just live near where you work, you'll be alright ;-)

[bell]

my shelby charger gets something like 10-12 miles/gallon
boost baby

[juanbenae]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
Ooops.

that's rich.

[Loquat15]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
Ooops.

Why do you say opps? You act as though its a bad thing to buy a 944 just because its a Porsche... Hell, it looks nice, it's got a very interesting engine setup... SO, why opps? I'm well aware of all the issues with them (took a while), besides, its fun working on.

[gassy]

I'm not being mean but I gotta ditto the Ooops.

[masraum]

loquat, I think it's a lighthearted joke. These are mostly 911 guys, and you said "it'd be cool to own a Porsche." But, thank goodness, you eventually realized that "it'd be cool to own a cool Porsche."

[M.D. Holloway]

American car co's don't know how to bring a product to market. They have problems from the design phase through materials selection and on through production. There is no phase of the develpment cycle that is not a snafu! The problem begins with the products they think Americans want - mostly rediculus marketing firms thinking they are doing accurate roundtables but what it turns into is a cluster of small minded egos producing spun ideas and having the nutbag to pitch accordingly to the upper management.

The foks in purchasing at these companies are the bottom feeders and are a step out the door. The production process is handcuffed with incredable pay for unskilled workers. Honda and Benz - the workers on the line are trained for 6 months before they see a wrench. At the big three it is 2 weeks tops.

The technology is passing but still lags compared to the Asian and Europian. The performance is there and the reliability is there. The American car co's just don't get it.

What is really sad and scary is the fact that they are buying variuos companies up and assimaliating their medocracy into them. The day Honda or Porsche gets sold to Ford is the day I the Auto will have died for me. It happened with Volvo and will happen with all the others. The machine is too big but I hope it fails.

And a note - for those of you that will slam me for not buying American - and that I am hurting our economy for buying Asian products like a Honda, let me tell you this: I have helped more American co's improve their factories then anyone I have met - documanted reliability savings in the millions. I love this country but hate the autos we build!

[ricochet]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77

And a note - for those of you that will slam me for not buying American - and that I am hurting our economy for buying Asian products like a Honda, let me tell you this: I have helped more American co's improve their factories then anyone I have met - documanted reliability savings in the millions. I love this country but hate the autos we build!

Hey Mike,
I'll not slam you, this is still a free country. But I buy American autos (mostly Fords) and plan to (again mostly) for the future. I do not have the bad luck, they last me 2-300k miles usually with VERY few problems. I did have a bad Chevy once. I also had several Toyotas and Nissans that were poor, had 3 bad Volkswagons (repair costs were much more). They would not endure the torture I offered. Is my truth.

I usually plan to drive my F series pickups for 10+ years and 200,000 miles or better, why should I change? Has never failed me yet.

Mine are abused (overloaded and mudded way too often), mine hold up better than my friends Toyotas. Sorry guy, but here we disagree bigtime. I get decent milage WHEN I "TRY" to, I abuse mine too often.

My Porsche is a real money pit, my Fords never are.
I train my co-wokers well and deal with terrible stuff daily. My stuff requires 15 months of training (per OSHA), IS DEADLY.

C'mon Mike, it's management, not training!!! I'll give ya more info, look into the early Honda Accords built in the US. They were usually better than their Japanese counterparts.

Also, we use older tech in US corps. It's not the worker, hell I am pushed 110% daily and work for prolly less than a Japanese worker, or German worker. I work with 1965 built equipment to compete, is that the workers fault?

I prefer the auto's the US we builds. You are the lubemaster, but I will not heed your auto advice. I'll continue abusing and buying Fords till others bankrupt them.

Next, If I build the best 10x? stainless nut, but the standard nut works well in 99.5% of it's uses, should I spend more to impress that .5% of it's users if it offers little in return. What is the return? What is the payback? ROI. Pay 100% more for 10% gain. Now falls back to testing.

[M.D. Holloway]

John - I understand your point. I am working off of my experiance as well as what I have seem on the production floor at GM, Honda and Toyota. I've owned American and Asian and found success eastward.

I agree it is management. When you look at the fundemental reasons why things fail, it gets broken down to 4 main points.
1) Man
2) Materials
3) Methods
4) Machines

I think some of the attitudes are wacked (man), I think the way that management designs, trains and manages is wacked (methods), I think they use products that are "not the best" (materials), and I think the engines and transmissions suffer (machines). I was in a brand new (well it was a 2004) GM exted-cab pick-up last night, the oil light ws on cuz it burns 2 qts every quarter, and the transmission was bucking like Friday date night! And Dodge? I lemon law'd one last year.

[Dantilla]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77

for those of you that will slam me for not buying American -

Isn't this place full of Porsche owners?

[David McLaughlin]

I really wanted to buy American. When it was time to get my wife a mommy-mobile, I looked at GMC but descided an SUV was the wrong choice for now. I gave in and started looking at minivans. I looked at Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler. I liked the look of the Chrylser and was almost ready to buy but then test drove the T&C and Toyota's Sienna back to back. The final desciding factor was the Town & Country's power door. It sounded like the worm gear was going to fall apart after a couple of uses. I mean it was loud and rough. The Toyota was quiet and solid. For the price, I could have gotten a far more loaded Chrysler but descided the Toyotas quality was worth loosing some options.

We'll see what happens in 10 years.

About American cars; why do I constantly see American mid level sedans with pealing paint?

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally posted by Dantilla
Isn't this place full of Porsche owners?

True - but how many are the daily drivers and how many also have US cars/trucks? Also, I think there are a bunch of guys that feel real strong about the trade defiect and so forth.

[Dantilla]

Yeah, my truck is a 3/4-ton 4x4 Chevy that has no foreign competition. Sorry, but Nissan, Honda, and even Toyota trucks don't come close to the hauling and towing capacity of the domestic three.

When I don't need it, I'm usually getting 30+ mpg in a Miata.

[ricochet]

Originally posted by David McLaughlin
I
We'll see what happens in 10 years.

About American cars; why do I constantly see American mid level sedans with pealing paint?

Hey David, I see this often also. I work in a Sulfuric acid plant, and we do have "incidents" rarely. My Fords have shown spots (worked there 20 years+) and have shown spots. My fella co-workers GM stuff have shown peeled paints. The 87 Ford era paint did peel sometimes, altho my 86 4x4 looked great from 10 feet till she was traded in 96, but had many spots.

The stuff I produce daily (2100 tons per day of sulfuric acid) is deadly to paint- and humans, we intend to keep it in the pipes/tanks. Sadly, this stuff loves vehicles. It finds a way to migrate to cars. Seems Ford paint handles this stuff fairley well (altho my 2001 F truck has +110 spots of metal showing) the Chevys did seem to peel. Most of the co-workers driving foreign stuff trade every 2-3 years (why?), I dunno.
I drive my trucks till I feel dependability is in question. I must drive 1800 miles or so 2-4 times minimum per year (84/85 trips in 22 years, so far) so I demand trust, nothing less than 100%).

My trucks show dimples, and I get deducts, but is little after so many miles. Mine give me miles/ trust, but need paint when I get miles on them, seems I still see my 86 4x4 running around (I traded her in at 185k) back in 96. Was a special order traction lock that I tortured often,actually beat her up often. She is still running.

Are all American vehicles 2nd rate? This is where I differ! Mine, I put thru HELL, and they last. But I have to maintain, heck I do repairs. 2nd rate, nah. But I torture mine, and abuse them. I regularely change oil every 4-10k miles, sometimes more. That killed my foreign stuff. My Fords seemed to thrive on that.

Talk about cheap materials used, look at some of the later Nissan trucks. Run like hell, but look (and rattle) like crap. Better stuff, nah! cutting corners to make a cheap truck, yes. Is crap like others describe. I'll take the slower Ford and never look back. Nissan screwed up so badly. They tried! Toyota tried (sit in their back seats), and Honda tried (is a car with a truck -kinda- body).
I'll make my choice, happily. Look at the Nissan and say Ford offers cheaper materials, c'mon. The Ford is not second rate, they got a lot right. The Nissan and Toyota impress who??? Not one who owns a Ford or Chevy. Heck, even a Dodge beats them usually.

Even tho my Porsche is a money pit, I am more proud of it than I'd ever be of owning a Non-American truck. I enjoy competition, but despise the non-American trucks. Sad, but they may beat us in one area, but tend to lack in many. I'd still rather push my Ford before looking at ANY non- US pickup. Luckily, I never push my Ford. I'd walk before riding in others. That has held true even when my Porsche failed me... I'll walk.

[David McLaughlin]

Trucks are a different story for me. I would like to own another truck and it won't be a Nissan. The Hondah looks silly (scaled down Caddy?). I've always like the early Toyota 4x4s but that's more toy than work. Shoot, I even like the VW pickup when it's outfitted with all of the '83GTI goodies. But if I were to buy a truck, it would be an older Ford or Chevy. My "dream" is a rat rod... I mean rat truck. I want the body beat but all new running gear. I want something to put fear in the Lexus drivers hearts and scares latte drinking yuppies.