http://homepage.mac.com/brianflemmin...rier_photo.jpg

i'm sure this picture was taking right in beginning of the speech , where he said... the war is over...

so basically , there is no war, they're just having a prolonged training exercise in the desert... don't let the peacemongers fool you , peace allready broke out long time ago...they just want more of it and they're beeing unreasonable... right?

svan...you, like your leftist brethern, reel that pic out, take it out of context and misrepresent the event and what was said...like everything other thing in your fantasy land belief system.

what part is taken out of context? mission is over? tell that to the mothers of the KIA's that are brought back every week

So, if we started packing up today, made an emergency evacuation of Iraq, paid substantial reparations to the people, and formally apologized to the world... What do you people think would happen?

All those terrorists would just go home to their families and finish living their happy & productive lives? The citizens of Iraq could look forward to a peaceful and happy existence? Peace, happiness and stability would return to the region?

Have any of you people thought any of this through? :confused:

- Skip

Let me answer that for you...They think whatever suits their "feelings", or whatever gets the most coverage by the MSM, mainly negative.

very simple

You can't separate the defeat of Saddam's Military with our continued war against Saddam's loyalist-based insurgents and terrorists.

When you win a war, you have control over the country and the citizens inside that country are safe from aggression. this isn't the case in Iraq and parsing is way too Clintonesque and does a disservice to our fallen soldiers.

Good grief this gets old.


Bush bnever said the war was over....oh nevermind.

Skip, I believe you are correct. It's just a shame that we allowed, no, fostered the development of terrorists in Iraq. Just read any of Fint's posts, listen to Donny Rumsfeld, et al.

We built, now we have to fix it and more U.S. soldiers will die for a country unwilling to step up to the plate and take over. What are we up to, 10% of trained Iraqi military forces necessary to maintain order. Over hte last 3-4 years.

revisionist history.

Funny way to describe straightening out distorted leftist revisionist history....I guess revising revisionist history to reflect accuracy is "revisionist", but not really.

Scott Sforza, a former ABC producer who was hired by the Bush campaign in Austin, Tex., and works for Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director.

White House officials say that a variety of people, including the president, came up with the idea, and that Mr. Sforza embedded himself on the carrier to make preparations days before Mr. Bush's landing in a flight suit and his early evening speech.

Media strategists noted afterward that Mr. Sforza and his aides had choreographed every aspect of the event, even down to the members of the Lincoln crew arrayed in coordinated shirt colors over Mr. Bush's right shoulder and the "Mission Accomplished" banner placed to perfectly capture the president and the celebratory two words in a single shot. The speech was specifically timed for what image makers call "magic hour light," which cast a golden glow on Mr. Bush.

Please...:rolleyes:

I would love to see that link...However irrelevant it is to the ship's mission being accomplished.

You know what I don't get?

Take a guy like Shaun, obviously well studied and fairly intelligent....but even he spends the majority of his time looking for gotcha moments instead of real substantive arguments.

I mean the "mission accomplished" thing. You know full well what that was all about and that it in no way was a declaration that hostilities were over don't you? Maybe I'm wrong and your awareness really is that shallow?

Mull, you deal with Speedy and he's similar. Do they really not look for substance in anything or dig for "real truth" or do they know full well of the deeper meanin but take great glee in "gothcha moments"? I honestly can't tell.

maybe because there technically never was a war?
if memory serves me right, there was no official declaration of war right?

so the mission accomplished,
was some positive feel happy banner that the CO had put up to complement the deck swabbing operation earlier that morning or what?

it sure as hell wasn't the capture of Sadam who was still jumping from rathole to rathole, and he did so for what ? another six/nine months?

as for pulling out and such ... what happened in vietnam?
civil war , nasty **** , right , and eventually it got better because the vietnameze sorted their own ***** out

which technically is the correct way to go


simplified example :
if your neighbours have some marital problems
do you stomp down their frontdoor and force them to be civil with a shotgun?? or do you let them figure out their own life by themselves? they have to work it out themselves


let the rag heads sort out their own crap... cause you can't tell me that freedom spreading is the core of the agenda here

just like WMD's or Sadam's alleged support to muslimfundamentalists ( who really don't like Sadam's lack of religious hardlining) wasn't the agenda either..
it was just a handy excuse to go in (there's oil in them sand dunes !!) , in the wake of 9/11, it was a PR spin that somehow worked and they got away with it...

Yes, exactly. :rolleyes:

See now him I understand ,he just started paying attention recently so he honestly doesn't know what it was all about. I can forgive ignorance.

if you think about it , before Sadam , all those "insurgent" folks , that as rumours go , aren't even locals.... didn't have a chance in Iraq.
the Sunni and the other whats their faces where basically prevented from beating eachother up by Sadam , extremists never could do anything there because anyone at any time could just get snuffed over no reason whatsoever.. os everybody kept quiet

what happens ? USofA barges in cowboy style , starts tearing up the country , and in the process removes the strict (very strict) rule of Sadam and his croonies..

and while mr Bush is doing PR duty on the carrier deck in his flightsuit

the military fails to establish law , order, control , utilities
and "insurgents" enter the country , and hte local fractions start pissing eachoter off...

if you ask me they should ave left the bee's nest alone
you may know there's one 5 miles from your house, but since it's not even on your property you leave it alone

off course if you walk there, and poke a stick in it... you can run , but they will just follow you till you get home

question is ... why did you poke the nest? to liberate the bees from the awfull rule of hte queen? or because you wanted the honey???

EDIT , don't get me wrong, i'm not pointing fingers at the military for beeing incompetent , the gun can only fire accurately if the man at the trigger takes aim and only shoots when he has a clear shot... military beeing the gun , politicians been responsible for the target aquisition and ultimate decision to fire.

"My fellow Americans," Bush intoned May 1, 2003. "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."

I know its against the Rove play-book to concede anything, anything at all. But what do you think it does to your credibility to make these arguments?

Just admit that Bush, just this one time, made an error, that his administration had not considered that the "battle of Iraq" was just beginning.

Then you can get back to defending every other bone head move this administration has made over the last 5 years. But when the President said that the battle of Iraq had ended, its safe to assume that he meant the battle of Iraq had ended.

I think it was an error. So what???

Do you recall what our "combat operations" were during the invasion? Are you aware the invasion is over or "accomplished"?
Are you serious, you really think he was claiming no more violence?>