Yep, the alternative is to give the terrrorists a homeland...with an oil spigot providing a never ending supply of funds to buy weapons/promote evil.

I thought Israel already gave up some land to the "Palestinians."

Bryan, don't go and think beyond 'now.'
Just accept that lib's want fewer deaths, now! Now, now, now!

Now how could anyone be against that? :rolleyes:

Like I said earlier, we need to stop fire-fighters from going near hot stuff . .. they might get hurt too. You wouldn't be FOR hurting our fire-fighters, would ya? . . .that would be evil. Let's all just tell ourselves that fires aren't really that much of a threat. Hell, I've roasted marshmellows on fires before. Firefighting is simple not the answer. :cool: :rolleyes: :cool:

Donahue's comrades at the Workers World Party are actually rooting for the insurgents in Iraq...You know, the people who are murdering women, children and American soldiers, to create instability and prevent democracy.



WorkersWorldParty

Interesting how these red coated lefties are so outraged at Americans taking American Indian land, yet they think the Joooooos don't have a right to land that they have "occupied" for 1,000s of years before Islam ever reared its ugly murderous head...It is the Jewish people's land...time for the scum to leave and go back to their respective countries of origin.

That's a telling criticism of yourself Mul. Apparently all Muslims (?) - or is it Arabs (?) - are "scum" in your eyes. Nice....

And invoking Nazi imagery (again) to further your point is weak (cause it is wrong) and inflammatory.

Bryan/Island/Fint and yes you too Mul (although I'm close to my first ever use of "ignore"), I am in favour of staying the course. I actually probably think we (New Zealand) should do more to try and "help". I am very concerned that what you are doing right now isn't really helping.

Fixing the problem in Iraq is something that the US and UK armies appear to be woefully inadequate at, but I'm all in favour of fixing it.

I probably wasn't clear enough in my last post - I should have said that those who want out of Iraq right now (me, me) probably don't believe that staying the course stops terrorism.

What I would like though is for a little more O'Rielly style admission that the war (in the form it eventuated) was a mistake. $200b buys a lot of alternatives for dealing with Middle East despots.

Or, perhaps, it is going better than what should be expected...Given the history of warfare, it is the most surgical and humane (PC war strategy costing more than necessary American lives) war the world has seen.

Your right Cam, Nazis were no match for communists as far as evil...same animal with different stripes.

China is less evil than Nazis - therefore, not all communists are more evil than Nazis... leaving... overall communists are less evil than Nazis. Now that wasn't hard, was it.

Besides, that distateful graphic is the peace symbol and Nazi.

No-one, with the possible exception of Dick Cheney, still pretends what is happening in Iraq is either "going to plan" or - even sillier "better than expected".

"Expected" was, IIRC, flowers in the street and single digit billions of dollars.

"America's anti-war movement, still puny and struggling, is showing signs of being hijacked by one of the oldest and darkest prejudices there is. Perhaps it was inevitable. The conflict against Islamo-fascism obviously circles back and back to the question of Israel. Fanatical anti-Semitism, as bad or even worse than Hitler's, is now a cultural norm across much of the Arab Middle East and beyond. It's the acrid glue that unites Saddam, Arafat, al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Iran and the Saudis. They all hate the Jews and want to see them destroyed. And if you're campaigning against a war against that axis, you're bound to attract some people who share these prejudices. That is not to say that the large majority of anti-war campaigners are anti-Semitic. Of course they're not. But it is to say that this strain of anti-Semitism, hovering around the edges of that movement, is a worrying and dangerous sign."

AndrewSullivan (gay neo-con)

Open your eyes Cam!

"But Levy, a longtime member of the leftist Jewish group Hashomer Hatzair, which supports the Palestinian cause, arrived at the demonstration just as a boy from Hashomer, this one wearing a kippah, or skullcap, was assaulted. Levy ran to see if he could help and got caught in the melee, in which a total of four people, including himself, were injured.

"They were shouting 'Death to the Jews' and 'You and your kippah have no place here,'" Levy recalls."


I guess I went off a little whole cocked huh Cam?

ChristianScienceMonitor

I agree with what he says. I'm not sure that I need to "open my eyes" to anything. I oppose extremism full stop - this means Arab extremism, Jewish extremism, Christian extremism, libertarianism (;)), and more besides...

You can't invalidate an entire concept (being anti-war, or in my case, not pro-war) because it creates strange bedfellows in respect of a specific circumstance only.

I have no idea what the point of your last post is - a Jewish man is assaulted in France - a reprehensible attack which has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Do you want me to go frantically search google for an attack against an innocent Arab person in the US or UK (or France?)?

(edit) You missed this one offering a few more points of view (and another disgusting attack):

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0417/p06s01-woeu.html

It is not as black and white as blaming Muslims for everything. This is - IMHO - an extension of the whole Middle East problem. "Winning" through power is not the answer as far as I am concerned.

You expressed offense and I justified the peace sign morphing into a swastika...It has prescient relevance and truthful connotation. I understand there are well-meaning advocates for a peaceful solution, one that escapes a rational person faced with reality, however, the "anti-war" movement is a front and that front conceals advocates of the worst ideologies the world has ever seen (anti-semitism/communism/Islamo-fascism).

It is the machinery behind the movement and their intentions that I criticize, Cam...as you should.

ok , so he can lie and say what he wants, just because it looks like news, but isn't news? so at what point does it become news, or at what point does it stop beeing news and becomes entertainment?

reminds me of the Larry Flint movie , where he makes fun of a tv preacher... some fake advertisement where the preacher recommends whiskey and does things with his own mother... he sued Flint , but the supreme court ruled
"he could say what he wanted , because it was so obviously impossible, it couldn't be true", a parodie

this is the opposite , if it looks like news, and the story is presented as true, then you can't call the parodie thing like Larry Flint did, right?



not talking news papers here... dunno about the Sun , but i'm sure they can't write blatant lies or the would get sued
slanted, well yes news papers do lean towards left or right depending on their readers, and they will pick stories that suit their siding , but they can't change stories , haven't seen that yet in Belgium or Holland, but like a say , dunno about the sun , all i know about it is page3 :D

but i'm sure they don't bully the mother of a soldier that got killed in Iraq, just because she protests
i've read english papers, there's nothing they like more than an angry mother taking it to the gouvernement...they like sad stories a lot...

"Anti-war" gets hijacked by a lot of people. There are some bad ones (professional protestors, for want of a better term).

And peace and communism aren't the same, so you haven't justified the peace movement morphing into the swastika at all. The disturbing bit is I know your next line of argument and I suspect you actually believe it. I'm not going to bother arguing however, because I know I'm not going to convince you (we argued about this last time you were around) and I am confident that no-one else thinks like you.

I could change the topic?

If Islam is the problem, what is the solution? Is that reasonable, and what should the Islamic response be?

Just prior to Bush invading Iraq and starting this war on false premises, there occurred the largest mass protests the world has ever seen. ~10 million people in dozens of countries took to the streets simultaneously in peaceful protest.

Are you claiming that all of these people, or even most or many are communists? (Including me). I am not aware that any of these 10 million marched in communist countries, but I could be mistaken.

The point is that your "facts", Jason, do not even hold up to the most rudimentary of observation. I also do not see communism as a political philosophy as the biggest evil on earth, not by any stretch, but still I am not one.

Alternative? We created Club Iraq specifically for the development of terrorists. there is no alternative because we already gave terrorists a homeland. And before you "try" to refute that, run a google on Donny Rumsfeld, bush and your own posts.

That spigot, it's called Saudi Arabia. It exists now.

I wish the Right would pick a direction and stay with it. Man it's hard to keep up with all of your justifcations.

Ever page through a magazine and see something that looks like editorial but has ADVERTISEMENT written across the top?

There are very strict standards on advertising in print media and when an ad starts to look like edit, it needs to be labeled as such.

Same thing should happen on ALL news channels. You should see a little "opinion" icon or similar in the lower left part of the screen.

Too many people believe that OR, Hannity/Colmes, Rush, Franken, etc. actually report news/tell the truth versus skirt the edge of outright fiction all in an effort to build ratings, make money, sell books, and in O'Reilly's case, sell clothes.

I was appalled that OR announced the other night that he has a line of men's fashions that you too can purchase. You guys that believe Rush, et al are sad. They are just making money off of your misplaced loyalty and ruining the Country at the same time. Traitors, all of them.