Will GM file bankruptcy?

[techweenie]

...apparently, it's being discussed.

GM may need it, but I wonder about the psychological impact on the economy.

[asphaltgambler]

I thought GM had sold a major interest in Ditech earlier this year.....

[speedkillz]

Remember The 70's... Every car company put all their eggs in big heavy cars, now it's the SUV . I think Chrystler/Jeep went BK at that time. FLASH TO THE FUTURE It was only a matter of time, gas went up $1.50 and them SUV get 9 mph city 15 hwy.
This is the 70's all over again. We made it then, we'll make now.

[1967 R50/2]

Also remember that the Gov't bailed out Chrysler back when and Iacocca went on to pay back the loan early and Chrysler ultimately became more successful. That was what good management can do.

It also shows that the gov't is unlikely to let one of the big three bite the dust.

But...I don't think GM is even close to needing a gov't bail out. More likely they will close up some of the divisions...like Buick.

[widebody911]

What's good for GM is good for the country, right?

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by widebody911
What's good for GM is good for the country, right?

In a round about way, yes.

But anyway, yes they will be forced to do it to purge the union and eliminate their legacy costs. There simply is no other answer.

[yellowline]

Welcome to the results of purchasing foreign on unfounded bias.

I'm not talking Porsche, BMW, or other sporty cars where GM really doesn't have an alternative.

The Malibu with one of those old-school pushrod V6s gets 32 MPG highway. The previous generation, while not a great car, was ranked more reliable than a Camry. I'm sure the new one is better.

Meahwhile, who asked for a CAFE exemption? Nissan. It's not just the Big Three that are rolling out the trucks like there's no tomorrow

The union and management are part of the problem, but when half the country sets in to buy a family car and says "I'm not buying American because my 1978 Oldsmobile diesel blew up," that's idiotic.

Meanwhile, GM sold 100 American cars in Japan one year around the beginning of this century. Other nations are loyal to their industries. We tax, legislate, and buy against them enough to drive them bankrupt or out of the country.

[DaveE]

GM sold off my division (Electro-Motive) in April. At the time I was pretty upset. I hate to see them struggling like this but I think the entire US auto industry is not positioned well for the fuel prices we're likely to see from this point on.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by yellowline
Welcome to the results of purchasing foreign on unfounded bias.

This bias is not unfounded. It was created by the Big 3 themselves. Detroit cranked out uninspired *****boxes they called cars and assumed people would buy them out of patriotism. It worked for a while, and then the Japanese came up with better-looking cars that lasted longer and didn't drink as much gas, but the Big 3 didn't seem to care. You can only soddomize your customers for so long before they go elsewhere. Despite the import tarrifs, the Japanese still cleaned Detroit's clock.

The union and management are part of the problem, but when half the country sets in to buy a family car and says "I'm not buying American because my 1978 Oldsmobile diesel blew up," that's idiotic.

And when a company expects it's customer base to ignore the crap it produced over the past 30 or so years, that's even more idiotic.

Other nations are loyal to their industries. We tax, legislate, and buy against them enough to drive them bankrupt or out of the country.

I wonder how many of the people that bemoan the unpatriotic car buying habits are of the same ilk that defend outsourcing jobs to 3rd world countries. You see, buying a Honda actually is actually good for America, because it frees up a American to find a better job! (Yes, that's a common argument in defense of tech outsourcing)

[techweenie]

Originally posted by DaveE
GM sold off my division (Electro-Motive) in April. At the time I was pretty upset. I hate to see them struggling like this but I think the entire US auto industry is not positioned well for the fuel prices we're likely to see from this point on.

I think that's more a matter of being the 'wrong thing' to the 'wrong people.'

Americans who are inclined to Ford and GM are more likely to prefer their larger/lower mileage vehicles. People seeking economical vehicles are predisposed to Asian cars. No matter how wonderful the current crop of 'economy cars' from GM and Ford are, they were marketed for 30 years as a "hair shirt" alternative to the luxo-boats that brought in bigger margins. And, they are hampered by the poor reputation of the initial generations of econo cars from Detroit.

[jyl]

There is something I'm not quite understanding about GM's woes.

Why can't GM make a profit selling a car while Toyota can?

Most of Toyota's cars are still made in Japan (about 1/5th of units are made in the US). Japan autoworker wages are high (>$40/hour). Japan is an aging society and there must be many ex-Toyota retirees.

I'm curious about this. Any thoughts?

[lendaddy]

The SUV "FAD" is far far from over. In fact it was no fad at all, look at the sales numbers....HUGE! It's not a growing segment anymore, but it's still huge and it's not going anywhere. Anyone that lives outside a metroplis can tell you this. I understand not wanting a big Suburban in Chicago, LA, or NYC, but out here they make perfect sense.

[widebody911]

http://today.reuters.com/investing/FinanceArticle.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2005-10-10T182753Z_01_N10393922_RTRIDST_0_AUTOS-DELPHI-BONUS.XML

Under its proposed key employee compensation program, 486 U.S. executives would receive cash bonuses of 30 percent to 250 percent of their salary, totaling $87.9 million, upon Delphi's exit from bankruptcy or sale of the company.

For example, President Rodney O'Neal would get a total cash bonus of $2.75 million, based on a $1.15 million average salary. Some 464 executives could earn bonuses ranging from $50,000 to $475,000, based on salaries of $120,000 to $450,000.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by lendaddy
The SUV "FAD" is far far from over. In fact it was no fad at all, look at the sales numbers....HUGE! It's not a growing segment anymore, but it's still huge and it's not going anywhere. Anyone that lives outside a metroplis can tell you this. I understand not wanting a big Suburban in Chicago, LA, or NYC, but out here they make perfect sense.

OPEC appreciates your support.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by widebody911
http://today.reuters.com/investing/FinanceArticle.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2005-10-10T182753Z_01_N10393922_RTRIDST_0_AUTOS-DELPHI-BONUS.XML

[i] Under its proposed key employee compensation program, 486 U.S. executives would receive cash bonuses of 30 percent to 250 percent of their salary, totaling $87.9 million, upon Delphi's exit from bankruptcy or sale of the company.

[i]

If these guys got $0 they could have given each employee $750 for the year.



The travasty

[widebody911]

Originally posted by lendaddy
If these guys got $0 they could have given each employee $750 for the year.

So if one of your employees steals $10k worth of stuff, you'd just roll your eyes and say "Well, if he hadn't stolen anything, then I could have given everyone else $100"

You don't seem to understand that the loot-n-scoot mentality is one of the fundamental problems with American management today.

This goes a long way to understanding Republican fiscal policy - get while the gettin's good, then get out of dodge. I mean GM.

[DaveE]

One would wonder what sort of huge bonuses they're entitled to anyway for overseeing the decline of their company into bankruptcy. As I was brought up, a bonus was a reward for GOOD performance.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by DaveE
One would wonder what sort of huge bonuses they're entitled to anyway for overseeing the decline of their company into bankruptcy. As I was brought up, a bonus was a reward for GOOD performance.

The way they screwed it up was giving into the spoiled employees demands. They should have told the unions to suck it decades ago. Truth is they have done a masterful job keeping these sinking ships afloat for so long as it was.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Truth is they have done a masterful job keeping these sinking ships afloat for so long as it was.

So how's the fishing in the Denial River this time of year?

[DaveE]

Delphi was reasonably sound when GM spun it off. These folks reaping the rewards were at the helm when it collapsed. How many $25,000 cars are you going to sell when you abolish the unions? And cut wages? And raise gas prices further? Don't blame all the ills of industry on union labor.