Is a drug user committing the same criminal act as a drug pusher?

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by turbo6bar
Alcohol fits the above, so why is it legal? I think the risk of drunk driving is greater than the risk posed by a Liberal Arts major and maryjuana. Why does society believe individuals can use and not abuse alcohol, but not believe the same of marijuana?

I cannot see the societal benefit of letting one, or more, rabid cats out of the bag...One is quite enough thankyouverymuch...Mind you, I am an ex-drug/alcohol connoisseur.

[CamB]

Originally posted by fintstone
You guys are silly. If prostitution, drugs, etc were legal, there would be no black market for them. They would be sold by large companies that would be taxed just as they are for current products like cigarettes. Noone would buy risky illegal black market drugs when they could buy cheaper and better ones from a pharmacy.

I reckon there would be a black market. Let's pick pot, which has two negative externalities:

- like cigarettes and alcohol, taking it causes health probs; and
- like alcohol, taking it can/does cause social problems and there is a driving impairment issue.

This makes it an ideal candidate for excise tax, the purpose of which is supposed to be to pay for the negative externalities.

So, what if pot was legal, and taxed? I reckon there is a problem. While big corporations might cultivate it very cheaply, after a decent tax, advertising cost and margin are whacked on I reckon that there would still be an incentive for a black market and/or grow-your-own. Its not like tobacco or alcohol where black market or grow your own doesn't really work out (apparently because of quality).

Secondarily, and this applies to all drugs, I think there is a problem for testing for drug driving.

Basically, I don't think legalising "works". I'm against decriminalising on moral bases, but I'm kinda uptight.

[stevepaa]

Make that two drugs, nicotine and alcohol. Legal yet addicting. I do not see much difference between the guy drunk on alcohol or the guy stoned on marijuana. It is the excess that gets both in trouble.

I vote for legalization of drugs for the user. But in excess like a DUI they still get arrested. I'm with Fint on this one. I also think we need to spend more to help people off drug addictions which are harmful to them. The costs of nicotine addiction in lives shortened and medical costs is staggering. I think we could get a net cost plus over the years.
Some people who use drugs are self medicating themselves because doctors have not quite found the correct dosage for them. We need health care for all to solve this.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by CamB
This makes it an ideal candidate for excise tax, the purpose of which is supposed to be to pay for the negative externalities.

Never seems to work that way here in America...Sure, they say it, but then it just becomes another piggybank for porker politicians...Every election cycle they throw out the same "we need to raise taxes," to pay for this or that, mantras.

[barry2952]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Mind you, I am an ex-drug/alcohol connoisseur.

Ex-anythings are the worst. I'm an ex-cigarette smoker. Can't stand to be around it. I think people should be shot for smoking in restaurants. Yes I live in backward-ass Michigan where smoking seems to be encouraged in restaurants.

Rant over.

[Mulhollanddose]

I am just talking about simple ravages, not my emotion one way or the other. Alcohol is like a rabid dog reeking havoc throughout this nation...Last things we need out are cocaine and heroin, or worst yet, meth.

[CamB]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Never seems to work that way here in America...Sure, they say it, but then it just becomes another piggybank for porker politicians...Every election cycle they throw out the same "we need to raise taxes," to pay for this or that, mantras.

If its anything like here in NZ, the excise doesn't pay for the health costs (let alone social costs).

[turbo6bar]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
...Every election cycle they throw out the same "we need to raise taxes," to pay for this or that, mantras.

and pay for prisons and jails...

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by turbo6bar
and pay for prisons and jails...

Most people who get caught using or in possession are doing some other criminal enterprise concurrently...or they are about to.

[barry2952]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
Most people who get caught using or in possession are doing some other criminal enterprise concurrently...or they are about to.

That's a huge leap.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by barry2952
That's a huge leap.

I speak from experience...There are obviously exceptions, but people who engage in habitual drug use are much more likely to engage in crime...Cops generally don't just randomly pick out innocent citizens possessing drugs unless they are breaking some other law...For every crime a crook gets caught for, he/she has probably committed numerous others...Drug use and crime go hand-in-hand.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by 87coupe
If you believe that you have lived in a very sheltered world.

I guess so. I have lived all over the world and never once have had someone knock on my door and offer to sell me illegal drugs. If they do in your world...I am certainly glad mine is sheltered.

[87coupe]

You've never been offered drugs in public? I find that hard to believe living in Vegas and "all over the world" as you put it. Take a walk through downtown LV at night and see if you can make it more than 10 minutes without being offered something. Do you have the standard Police issued mustache? Maybe that's why nobody has solicited you. The point is, that people are offered drugs. Try thinking about what it's like for kids who are less fortunate than you and have to live in neighborhoods that are infested w/ drug pushers. Or the number of times a kid gets offers for drugs from friends (this applies to kids from all demographics). It's pretty easy to see how people end up experimenting w/ drugs and in turn end up addicted.

[stevepaa]

I have never been offered drugs either in outside world. In college I had roommates who suddenly appeared with grass, and I have no clue where they got it from.
(aside: these were all YR types).

Through others I have learned that many people who work temporary jobs in restaurant, coffee, or fast food places do drugs. They tend to socialize after hours more than other work place environs, gain each others trust and invariably one of them will pull out grass at their house. It is very hurtful for all involved when someone gets addicted.

The fact that I work on DOD contracts with a clearance, never did the bar scene , and have been married for 29 years may also explain the lack of drug offerings.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by 87coupe
You've never been offered drugs in public? I find that hard to believe living in Vegas and "all over the world" as you put it. Take a walk through downtown LV at night and see if you can make it more than 10 minutes without being offered something. Do you have the standard Police issued mustache? Maybe that's why nobody has solicited you. The point is, that people are offered drugs. Try thinking about what it's like for kids who are less fortunate than you and have to live in neighborhoods that are infested w/ drug pushers. Or the number of times a kid gets offers for drugs from friends (this applies to kids from all demographics). It's pretty easy to see how people end up experimenting w/ drugs and in turn end up addicted.

No mustache...ever. I live in an apartment in what certainly is not an especially good part of LV. I have walked through Vegas, Philadelphia, Norfolk, Paris, Frankfurt, Berlin, Madrid, Venice, LA, DC, Atlanta, San Antonio, Honolulu, etc... late at night without any offers. Then again, I was not looking for drugs. Seems to me that if people just walk up and offer you drugs....it has something to do with your appearance. Do tou get similar offers from prostitutes?

[87coupe]

Could be an age gap thing, growing up in your time was probably a very different experience