Is a drug user committing the same criminal act as a drug pusher?

[barry2952]

Is a drug user committing the same criminal act as a drug pusher?

My wife is of the opinion that a drug user is as guilty as a drug pusher because there would be no supply if there is no demand. She believes the punishment should be the same for both.

I contend that with no supply there would be no drug use therefore no criminal act would have been committed.

What do you think?




Continental Collection

[singpilot]

So why do spammers exist?

No one 'asks' or 'demands' their goods. But like a curse, they flourish, even here. Especially here lately.

I suspect that the supply and demand rules do not apply in some quarters.

[Joeaksa]

Barry,

Not a problem at all with that view. Oh by the way, does she drink iced tea, or take an asprin from time to time? Well, then she is a drug user herself. Any substance that changes your body (caffein) is a drug.

If Asprin was discovered today it would be a controlled substance, just like cocaine. You did not say illegal in your post but we all know that this is what she is talking about. Well my friend, until the early 1900's cocaine was legal and even in coke the soft drink. Then society felt that it was not good and made it controlled. They could do this to ice tea if they feel its bad for everyone.

We all do drugs in our lives. My favourite is dark chocolate but just because its legal and accepted does not make it any better than another one.

I drink wine or whiskey at night but thats no different than someone who smokes a joint or snorts a line of blow. Just because society AT THIS TIME does not feel its right does not change the fact that both of them effect our bodies.

Hope she enjoy's living in glass houses because if she is going to take this view I hope that she is living a perfect life. I am not and realize it. Now, where is that chocolate...

Joe A

[carnutzzz]

No.

That's why there are stiffer penalties for distribution vs. possession.

[Rick V]

A user of illigal drugs will seek out what it is that they want they have made a choice to do this. A dealer will in fact seek you out in order to make a profit. When I was in high school, many many moons ago I did more than my fair share of drugs so by your wifes opinion I shoud have a lifetime sentance doing hard labor. Why is this? The only person I hurt was myself. I never sold to anybody but I did share with my friends. I'm not condoning my past But why should I have been charged with anything more than possesion?
To make a comparrison Should I pay higher insurance for my P-car because someone else has a bad driving record? No Should I face a greater charge for recreational use because some else deals? No.

Just my opinion.
I do not subscribe to doing drugs anymore (old age I recon) but I also don't have the right to tell someone else that they can't get all smoked up

[coloradoporsche]

No one 'asks' or 'demands' their goods. But like a curse, they flourish, even here. Especially here lately.

I suspect that the supply and demand rules do not apply in some quarters.

If no one ever bought anything from a spammer, they would all go out of business. But since a small minority of recipients do buy, and the incremental cost of sending the spam to more people is basically zero, spam exists. Supply and demand.

If heroin were made legal would you stick a needle in your arm? Neither would I. But we would put the criminal element out of business.

[pwd72s]

I dunno about the dealer/user punishment thing. But I do know that Meth is bad news...here's the story of one life ruined:

Private troubles, public downfall
Kelley Wirth A death, a divorce and finally a drug charge push a once-promising lawmaker to resign
Sunday, October 16, 2005
JEFF MAPES and JANIE HAR
Kelley Wirth entered the Oregon Legislature in 2001 as an articulate young woman with detailed knowledge of local planning issues and a passion for children and families.

Colleagues, however, watched her self-destruct over the next four years as she struggled with the painful death of her father, a bitter divorce and the difficulties of being the single parent of two young girls.

In the 2005 session, Wirth routinely missed committee sessions and floor votes and, many observers say, became more disjointed in her public speeches and unable to focus. In recent weeks, her problems, once inside-the-Legislature gossip, became bizarre headline news.


Last month, she was seriously injured when she was hit by a car driven by a woman who claimed that Wirth was sexually involved with her boyfriend, a janitor at the Capitol. And on Thursday, Wirth was cited on a charge of possession of methamphetamine that police said they discovered as a result of the collision.

Wirth has denied an amorous relationship with the janitor and has not commented on the drug accusation. On Friday she announced her resignation, effective Nov. 15, citing her "current legal and health problems." She has declined to comment further, despite repeated attempts to contact her.

"This job takes a terrible toll on your personal life no matter what your circumstances are, and she had a lot going on," said Rep. Patti Smith, R-Corbett, who has served with Wirth on two committees, "and at times she just seemed overwhelmed."

Wirth graduated from Corvallis High School and received a political science degree from Oregon State University. She earned a master's degree in systems management from the University of Southern California. In 1990, she married Tom Wirth in Corvallis. They had two daughters, now 8 and 10.

Corvallis Mayor Helen Berg said Wirth served on a number of city boards, including the Corvallis Planning Commission, as well as the League of Women Voters. She appeared a natural candidate when the House seat in her district came open in 2001.

That first legislative session, Smith said Wirth seemed like a smart person who asked a lot of questions -- perhaps too many, the Corbett lawmaker joked -- and had a terrific knowledge of her district. Rep. Mary Nolan, D-Portland, said Wirth was passionate about children's issues and women's rights.

That commitment to women and children grew when her marriage fell apart in 2002. Wirth often noted she was the only single mom with young children in the 90-member Legislature. Currently, Wirth and her children live with her mother.

Freshman Rep. Deborah Boone, D-Cannon Beach, said Wirth was one of the harder members to get to know.

"I actively tried to be a friend of hers at times, but it was hard, and she was not talking. . . . I just got the sense she was always very busy and maybe disorganized or something."

Sometimes her floor speeches were disjointed, Boone said, and "I got the sense at times she didn't know what to say."

But Jack Graham, a recent University of Oregon graduate who interned for Wirth this year, said that Wirth went out of her way to make sure he had a good internship and that she solicited his opinion on issues.

The lawmaker, he said, was worried about being spied on by others.

"She felt as though she was always under watch," Graham said. "I didn't see anything strange, but she told me to watch out for strange stuff."


A lonely vote on meth bill


Wirth was the only legislator to vote against a bill toughening penalties for meth-related crimes, including a provision allowing judges to suspend child visitation rights for parents using meth.

Rep. Greg Macpherson, D-Lake Oswego, a chief sponsor of the bill, said Wirth told him she was worried that provisions in the bill could hurt children by cutting off food stamps to some parents convicted of meth-related crimes.

"She's an outspoken legislator in the positions she stakes out in defense of disadvantaged people," Macpherson said.

Rob Bovett of the Oregon Narcotics Enforcement Administration said he gave up trying to lobby Wirth on legislation aimed at cracking down on meth.

"I couldn't get where she was coming from," he said. "It seemed like she was trying to find issues where there weren't any."

Friends and legislators said they hope Wirth will now be able to concentrate on rebuilding her life.

"I just want these allegations not to cloud the good work she has done," said Marti Barlow, a Wirth friend and spokeswoman. "We sent her back two times because we had that faith in her, and we need her constituents to stand behind her. We're all human beings . . . and it's time for us to stand behind her."

Reporter Michelle Cole and researcher Margie Gultry contributed to this report. Jeff Mapes: 503-221-8209; jeffmapes@news.oregonian.com Janie Har: 503-221-8213; janiehar@news.oregonian.com

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[Joeaksa]

Have heard that meth is the worst drug there is. Everyone is afraid of Heroin but lots of people snort speed to get things done. Unfortunately for some people after the first hit they are addicted. It seems on the addicted people that then start shooting it and its all over by that time.

Sad to see it happen but its being done all over the country and world. How to cure it is a good question but we sure do not have the problem figured out.

JoeA

[fintstone]

Originally posted by barry2952
Is a drug user committing the same criminal act as a drug pusher?....[/URL]

I think so. the difference is just a matter of degree. a person that steals a car stereo...or even a candy bar is stealing....just like the person who robs a bank. All are doing the same thing.

Maybe a better question along the same line is: Should the looters in New Orleans have been shot? What about in Toledo yesterday?..or after Baghdad fell? Does lack of response cause more criminal activity...be it drug use or ??? Do criminals, whether they are thieves or looters become emboldened by getting away with the minor crimes and going on to the larger ones? . and would dealing sternly with drug users (or looters) set enough of an example that it would cause deterrence?

[Joeaksa]

I know that when I was based in Saudi that every week drug users and dealers had their heads cut off in public. It did not stop someone from doing it and the punishment cannot get much worse than that.

When you are addicted, you usually cannot just stop, no matter what the Govt says. How to fix it is a good question but throwing everyone in jail and walking away is not a fix nor cure.

JoeA

[fintstone]

That is the point, it would not stop someone already addicted, but it would certainly cause a lot to seek treatment or never try the drug in the first place...hence no addiction. I imagine that even in Saudi, the thought of getting their heads removed does discourage a lot of first-time users. I think speeding is a bit addictive also, but is the ticket for 10-over was $10k...I would certainly never test that speed. Simple risk/reward ratio.
Obviously some people would, regardless of punishment.

[barry2952]

Let me clarify. We (my wife and I) were talking about pot dealers/users.

I personally think it is in a totally different category than anything else, essentially because it is the only "drug" commonly used in it natural form.

It's like this. A pot smoker wakes up wondering where he/she can get some more and a pot dealer wakes up thinking who they can add to their circle. Therein, IMHO, lies the difference.

[fintstone]

Line em up and shoot them. They will not do it again.

[livi]

IMO their is by principal one clear cut difference.

The pusher´s motive is making a living on other peoples addiction and doing so with a clear calculating mind. Disregarding the fact that he is effectively selling the means for self destruction.

The addict is not primarily motiveated by a wish to gain something on other peoples misery. He is under the influence of a very powerful substance that hugely diminishes his chances of making a moral decision on whether he should / could alter his path of life.

This is, of course, if we are talking about the hardcore pushers / addicted lot.

Selling or smoking some pot once every three months would carry a somewhat different set of arguments.

[Aurel]

If drug use was a crime, most of the military should be thrown to jail. They use them, don`t they? I know they did LSD in Vietnam, my coworker who is a Vet told me stories...I don`t know what they use now in Iraq, but I doubt very much things have changed
that much. The bottom line is that some people cannot cope with difficult events in their life, and use drugs as a way to make it more bearable. We all know this is the wrong solution, but why would it be a crime? And what about antidepressants? Are users criminals too? And doctors dealers?

Aurel

[masraum]

Use and pushing are two different things and should be punished differently.

If by some miracle tomorrow there was no coke, heroine, pot, meth, etc being sold, the users would be sniffing glue, breathing gas, whatever. Anything to get the "high".

I don't think it's any more possible to get rid of the use of drugs than it is to get rid of the sale of drugs.

People are just as addicted to beer/liquor/alcohol, nicotine, and caffiene as they are illegal drugs.

[Aurel]

Should a cancer patient who smokes marijuana to ease the side effects of chemotherapy be thrown to jail like a drug dealer? Let us not be any more silly, please...

Aurel

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Aurel
If drug use was a crime, most of the military should be thrown to jail. They use them, don`t they? I know they did LSD in Vietnam, my coworker who is a Vet told me stories...I don`t know what they use now in Iraq, but I doubt very much things have changed
that much. The bottom line is that some people cannot cope with difficult events in their life, and use drugs as a way to make it more bearable. We all know this is the wrong solution, but why would it be a crime? And what about antidepressants? Are users criminals too? And doctors dealers?

Aurel

Gee, Aurel...what would make you say such a thing? Must you always assume the worst about American GIs? Maybe your friend was French. The US military probably has less drug use per capita than any other group, including priests. I can't speak for what went on in Vietnam, but military members are tested regularly for illegal drugs with blood tests and urinalysis. Vehicles are stopped randomly and searched with drug dogs at the gate and the dorms have drug dogs through them regularly.

It is simple. People who use or sell illegal drugs are criminals...by definition. If doctors prescribe legal drugs and their patients take legal drugs...they are not.

[nostatic]

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[fintstone]

The real point is, either it is illegal..or it is not. If it is deemed necessary to make it illegal..like illegal immigration, and a lot of other things....the punishment/enforcement should be sufficient to deter it...and not be a joke as it is now.
Obviously "line em up and shoot em" is satire. Personally. as a liberatarian...I think all drugs should all be legalized. then the criminal element cannot profit...and they can be taxed and controlled the same as our many other vices.