US Special Forces all use the 45 Acp in a Colt 1911 deriviative...thye have found it to be far superior to anything else.

Stopping power? You want stopping power? I can't see anything better than a shotgun. Yes .40 & .45's are great but also can kill your kid at the end of the hall. You have to consider collateral damage when you talk big caliber guns.

Now I've opened the door to ammunition discussions.

The simple answer is shotgun. Point and shoot.

my first home offer was in oakland. i would have barred the windows and doors, and fortified the place. phew! i bought elsewhere.

no doubt, shotgun. 12 gauge with big duck loads. wont go thru walls, easy to point and shoot, and will eff up a bad guy in a hurry. i had a law enforcement guy tell me to remember that california is a (i think this is what he called it) a "retreat" state. so basically, you need to position yourself in a corner where you cannot retreat any further. then you can justify the defense when you blow the bastard away. i would get a benelli shotgun. the defense version. double barrels are not reloaded fast enough for oakland.

good luck.
i have a O/U shotgun and a sig 9mm in my arsenal.

There are other options between shotguns and blowing holes in the wall. Years ago the secops guys I used to fly around in my H-60 recommended that the first three rounds in my home protection weapon be similar to those on the link below. After that, lead sleds. Best of both worlds in IMHO, scare those who would rather flee than fight, deal with the rest.

http://personalsecurityzone.com/cgi-win/order/prodlist.exe/PSZ/?Template=ProdDetail.htm&ProductID=17806

Depending on where you are and how much you cut, this can be legal or illegal. Last thing you want is to take somebody out and then have the cops scrutinizing custom gun modifications for legality. If there is ever a "borderline" legal situation you may find yourself in with a gun, I'd rather be using something completely stock.

Not that we worry about that in Colorado much, with our "Make my day Law" which says you can pretty much execute anyone who breaks into your house…..no questions asked
:)

Google "places to shoot bay area", you'll find a list, there's a range in Santa Clara ("Reed's") that supposedly has rental guns.

As far as handguns go, I suggest you try out a Glock. Very reliable, fairly affordable, and behaves much like a revolver - keep the chamber loaded, and pull trigger = shoot, no other levers to worry about. Any caliber you like, holds 8-10 in CA and another 8-10 is 2 seconds away.

A shotgun makes a lot of sense to me for home defense, but search for a really interesting thread here, a couple months ago, where people discussed the actual stopping power of a shotgun. Jeff Higgins weighed in with some great and surprising (to me) info.

Okay, here it is, both threads are good:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/239622-considering-410-a.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/231491-guns.html

Now, if you're going to arm yourself, you've got to educate yourself on (1) what you can and cannot legally do, and (2) tactics and techniques.

By (1), I mean California laws on transporting, storing, using handguns. Here's a good start http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/cfl.pdf and also check out www.calguns.net where people talk about this stuff.

By (2), I mean what you would do when you hear the bump in the night. Do you take your gun and explore your darkened house? Flashlight? Turn on lights? Or do you stay in the locked bedroom? Call 911 immediately? Trigger your burglar alarm? Best to have a plan, ahead of time. I don't really know much about this, or have any info sources to offer. But I do know, for example, that in my house if I stand at the top of the internal stairs, I'm actually illuminated by a nearby window/streetlight while peering into a dark area, a disadvantageous situation I would think.

P.S.: I would even look into finding a class on CA self-defense with firearm. I should do that myself, so post if you find a good one.

The 45 ACP is a slow round 800 ft per sec., it has knockdown, but not a lot of penetration.. especially with hollow points...

jyl -

Thanks a lot for your post Imgoing to be checking this out.

us bay area guys should get together to blast some paper perps!

How about picking a Saturday or Sunday afternoon to meet at a local range?

I go to the Richmond Rod & Gun Club. Would be willing to check out a different range too, prefer East Bay. This coming weekend is bad, the next one would work.

Also or alternatively, how about meeting up at the SF Gun Show at the Cow Palace. Coming up in mid-Nov, I forget the exact date.

next two weekends are bad. the 13th i am at sears point! whooooweee! east bay is good for me too, richmond is good. lemme know, i will want to stock up on bullets.

Don't know what my calendar looks like in late Nov but probably OK. Pick a date and post it, I'll make it work. Maybe start a new thread.

I just got 600 rounds of bulk FMJ 9mm, you've got time to order yours (I used Cabelas), I can loan you a couple boxes too.

rsNINE, you should join us. Any other Bay Area Pelican shooters (don't mean that exactly how it sounds) around in late Nov?

I'll be up there Nov 13-15, but I'll have to boy in tow so no gun in tow.

Just got 1000 rounds of 124g FMJ and 250 rounds of 124g JHP from these guys:

http://www.lancerammo.com

I'll probably try 147g next...

bay area pelican shooters!!!! that is damn funny!

todd, see you and your kid at infineon.

18.5" is fed limit. local laws usually follow. However 20" should best to satisfy all local laws as that is a "Cowboy action" cut, and very common. Now OVERALL lenght fed is 31" muzzel to butt. Local laws should follow that guide also. When in doubt just go to

http://www.packing.org

and check you state laws

I like the CZ Rami in .40. Good stopping power and easily concealed. Very accurate, especially for a 3" barrel.

Here's a good pic.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1130973961.jpg

My $.02 worth:

I owned a gun shop for some time, taught shooting classes, and worked VIP security details... so I have a little experience from which to speak.

First, really evaluate your NEEDS vs DESIRES. If you're really buying a gun for home defence, then don't worry about having a 'cool piece'. Reliability and ease of use should be your determining factors.

Bar none, a shotgun is the best man-stopper there is. 2.75" chamber 12ga is fine and common. If you want more power, get a 3.5" 10ga - and hold on when you pull the trigger. Buy a pump - it's more reliable. Fill it up with 00 Buck. Get one with an extended magazine. My personal favorite is Mossberg 590. But as mentioned, they are unweildy when mishandled. Take a class and learn how to hold it and shoot it - house clearing can be done effectively with a shotgun.

Second choice is a revolver. Unlike previously posted, you CAN buy a revolver with a safety. And if you buy a S&W, you can always have it refitted with a Murabito safety. Buy a .357 magnum and fill it with Glaser Safety slugs. They are specifically designed for maximum stopping power with minimal "over penetration". They are used by sky-marshalls on airliners. MagSafe rounds mentioned in an earlier post are similar.
Why revolvers? They are reliable and low maintenance.

In theory, a home defence gun sits "at the ready" and doesn't go playing with the boys. It has to be ready to do it's job without hesitation. During a home intrusion, you are already at a disadvantage. The intruder is alert and knows he is going into a dangerous situation. You are just chillin at home, or asleep. Either way, you have to transition to defence mode. You have to get the gun, and get in the right mindset to use the gun. You definately do not need any extra delays. If you're fumbling with an unfamiliar weapon, or a jammed slide, you're screwed.

Yes, I know a properly maintained semi is reliable and effective. But why not eliminate the chance of something going wrong?

When I worked detail, I carried a CZ 9mm as my primary and a revolver as my backup. Why? Because I KNEW that revolver would work every time without question.

Again... these are my opinions only.
And it really only applies if the gun is for defence and not for play.
There are lot's of neato bangers on the market for playing......

http://isotopecomics.com/ADayDF6.jpg




edited to remove a bad link

For home-Remington 870 12 gauge super-mag. I just bought one from Gander for $269. It lives next to a box of 3 inch buck shot. Pity the person that has to clean up after the intrusion.

For carry-Kimber Ultra Carry 45.

__________________________________________________ _____ Quote: jyl

How about picking a Saturday or Sunday afternoon to meet at a local range?

I go to the Richmond Rod & Gun Club. Would be willing to check out a different range too, prefer East Bay. This coming weekend is bad, the next one would work.

Also or alternatively, how about meeting up at the SF Gun Show at the Cow Palace. Coming up in mid-Nov, I forget the exact date. __________________________________________________ ________

I would definitely be interested in tagging along if something like this would come together. I think it would definitely help me out to get a chance to talk to some knowledgeable folks about the possible choices and hear the opinions. The last thing I want to do is walk into a gun shop and have some gun dealer overcharge me for some junk gun thats not going to suit my needs. Now I know what someone feels like when they go look at an old Porsche without even a shred of automotive knowledge, SCARY.

If the only thing you are concerned about is getting broken into while you are gone then buy a big dog instead of a gun. If you want a backup for when you are home then stick with a shotgun.