Public property and trespassing

[Joe Bob]

Super said.....reasonable and mature.....

Hmmmm, been a lack of that around here of late.

As to "Police Officers" lieing and giving a false impression....it's not illegal for them to do so. Many court cases have hinged on officers bending the truth and getting someone to come forward with information that would not have been revealed if Officer Friendly had been straight and didn't imply things....on appeal the courts have sided with the "bent truth" and outright falsehoods.....so DON'T hang yer hat on that.

It IS reasonable for citizens to get the facts and to confront the officer's superiors and suggest that you ain't gonna put up wit dat crap.....an informed citizen ....... is a citizen that prevails....

On the other hand, the officer's interpretation of the situation may be different as to how YOU saw it....

As one who has been in the field and had a citizen call in and beyotch....I've seen from both sides. I, on many occasions (over a 20 year career) have had issues that needed a third party discussion.

Citizens can get heated, gubmint reps see it one way and the citizen sees it another.....

It's a matter of perception.....

[billwagnon]

Well tomorrow's Thanksgiving, so I think Friday I will scrub up and go down to the police department to see how all this works. I agree cops have tough jobs and not a lot of time - actually it was a lot like when my kids fight, I don't want to know the details, I just want the problem to go away.

There are some reasons this went down the way it did. The woods have been in a state of neglect for years. People dump their yard waste, downed trees, and all sorts of junk. No one has known about these woods before. So I posted directions on two of the local bike boards so maybe some more people will go out, the police will be called, and they'll find out it's not me.

I think the best course is to talk to the police on their turf. Meanwhile I can get other people to ride there to establish the trail. I think legally someone would have a point that I shouldn't have chopped two deadfalls out of the way, but seriously the place is nearly a dump, with a lot of vines. In the spring things may be different, especially if more people are using the space as a park. I do have a connection to the city prosecutor (and I'm not a resident of the town, the border is two blocks away) and someone on the parks board, so there are a couple of avenues to pursue.

[on-ramp]

"The cops said I was not allowed in those woods ever again, I said I thought it was a public space and they said it was, but if I was ever back there again I would be charged with trespassing."

so they're going to charge you with trespassing in a public space? I know guys on crack who make more sense than that.

anyway, if you feel like going on that path again, in a public place, i would go , don't be afraid. If they do anything , then they are certainly violating your rights as a tax-paying citizen.

[CamB]

Crazy world...

I'd ask for the kids to be banned from the park.

[Joe Bob]

Originally posted by on-ramp
"The cops said I was not allowed in those woods ever again, I said I thought it was a public space and they said it was, but if I was ever back there again I would be charged with trespassing."

so they're going to charge you with trespassing in a public space? I know guys on crack who make more sense than that.

anyway, if you feel like going on that path again, in a public place, i would go , don't be afraid. If they do anything , then they are certainly violating your rights as a tax-paying citizen.

Yep....you'd be right. But I would suggest speaking with a Supervisor FIRST as opposed to asserting your rights and ending up in a jail/emergency ward breathing thru a tube.....

[BGCarrera32]

Here's my 2 cents...take it or leave it.

Last year (without going into unnecessary details) I was pushing my boy in his stroller down our residential street and was placed in a very unsafe situation by a patrol car who failed to warn me he was rapidly approaching while responding to a call. We were facing the opposite direction.

Send a letter (I used e-mail but that may not work for you) to your police chief; copy the mayor, your city councilmembers (important!) and let them know exactly what happened and what you wish to accomplish. You would be suprised the results you may get when you first avoid taking an adversarial response. I got a reply in 24 hours from the police chief who said he was researching their call logs from that day to narrow down who it was so they could follow up, and I got a phone call from my councilman who said he had already talked with the police chief to get to the bottom of it. Both promised it would be taken care of.

And, for the record, you do not have the "right" to go into a public park property and start clearing a mountain bike trail. I mountain bike, wish you well with your riding, but the residents who border that park have to live there and its up to the city and that council district to decide how that land is used. The residents who border it will always have more pull on that one...get used to it. You may not like it guys, it might not be fair, but that's life.

Good luck.

[Bill Douglas]

Or deal with it the all American way. Go back and sodomise the two little boys, blow the cops heads off with the 357 magnum when they come lookin' for yer. And if they catch you, your defence is you were exercising your right to express yourself as an individual.

[Joe Bob]

Originally posted by Bill Douglas
Or deal with it the all American way. Go back and sodomise the two little boys, blow the cops heads off with the 357 magnum when they come lookin' for yer. And if they catch you, your defence is you were exercising your right to express yourself as an individual.

Isn't that a little harsh coming from a citizen another country?

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by mikez
Yep....you'd be right. But I would suggest speaking with a Supervisor FIRST as opposed to asserting your rights and ending up in a jail/emergency ward breathing thru a tube.....

the point is, why should I spend my time going after the SUPERVISOR, writing letters, etc if I just want to take a walk in a public park?

[Joe Bob]

Because ya pi$$ed off the local officers......unless they were just visiting, they are gonna see you again and most likely thump on yer a$$ until you blow snot bubbles......YOU are wrong until you prove that you are right.

What you think you have a "right" to walk and do what ya want AFTER you have been warned off by guys that have guns and badges????

Think again.

But...hey I could be wrong.....a cynical citizen is a safe citizen.

[Bill Douglas]

Havin' a little fun with yer.

[Joe Bob]

K....no worries, eh.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by mikez
.YOU are wrong until you prove that you are right.

.

exactly, you are guilty until you prove that you don't have any WMDs.

[Bill Douglas]

And you don't really want to have powerful enemys. Cops have been known to do a "Look what I found under the seat" with a bag of dope.

[tobster1911]

Originally posted by mikez
...and most likely thump on yer a$$ until you blow snot bubbles......YOU are wrong until you prove that you are right.

Does anyone else have a problem with this? So, basically cops have the right to just go around beating people that they don't like? Just because they have not proven their case yet? This is exactly why I dislike cops so much. They consider themselves "above" the law. The greatest joke of all time, "Innocent until proven guilty".

[Joe Bob]

Ummm, where did I say they had that right?

I said "most likely".....as one that loves my country, works for Gubmint....I still fear it....one might say I'm paranoid....I say I'm a realist.

In the real world, individuals still wield power and can abuse it....it's the checks and balances that correct the abusers....at least in most cases.

[billwagnon]

I think there is a lot of collective wisdom in this thread (except for the spandex thing). What you forgot the spandex thing?

And, for the record, you do not have the "right" to go into a public park property and start clearing a mountain bike trail.

I agree. I hesitate to taunt or show up people with guns. After I talk to the gentlemen in the police department, I'm going to talk to the parks board and see if I can be an official volunteer to clean up 20 years of trash in the woods and maintain a trail, perhaps starting in the January when the paranoids will have cooled off a little. That's my plan!

[RoninLB]

with all due respect to all above.

Every group is a political enviroment. That machine could do all the work and spare headaches and bs if manipulated for what it is.

The complainer homeowner has bs politics of a stranger. The PD has bs politics of a homeowner/taxpayer. The biker has bs politics of the PD & homeowner.

Originally posted by RoninLB
I'd collect info of the event and speak to someone at the Rep or Dem Club.. especially if you are a campaign contributor.

Whatever the scene is it's all the same machine one way or the other. In my town the foot soldiers are called committeemen or committeewoman. They have each a small section of town. The food chain goes up from there.

If he works the system properply they wind up putting out the red carpet every time he even thinks about going for a ride.

There is no right and wrong here for the most part. It's dealing with the systems environment imo.

[copper]

Originally posted by tobster1911
Does anyone else have a problem with this? So, basically cops have the right to just go around beating people that they don't like? Just because they have not proven their case yet? This is exactly why I dislike cops so much. They consider themselves "above" the law. The greatest joke of all time, "Innocent until proven guilty".

Does that mean you don't like me?

Just wondering as I like to know who my enemies are...

Jim

[competentone]

Originally posted by billwagnon
I do have a connection to the city prosecutor (and I'm not a resident of the town, the border is two blocks away) and someone on the parks board, so there are a couple of avenues to pursue.

It would probably be more fun if you have an attorney friend who would agree that these officers were out-of-line, and would be willing to go for a few bike rides with you in that woods.

When these bozo-officers show up (I'm sure they will, because I'm sure they're friends with someone in that neighborhood) and approach you, saying something like, "I thought we told you that if you showed up here again we'd arrest you! What are you doing here? And who's your friend?"

You reply, "This is my attorney, Mr. John Smith, he's here to witness you arresting me for "trespassing on public land." Seeing your illegal arrest first-hand will help him when he files suit against you for your improper behavior. And to be sure that there is no confusion about exactly what takes place here today, he is currently recording our conversation."

It would be fun to watch their reaction to that!