Libel, slander or just bad form?
 

A frequent poster on this board has a named quote from another frequent poster in his signature field that proclaims how on some days he feels undecided between denegrating and understanding the pov of terrorists in the world.

Here is the actual quote: I have to admit, there are days where I vacillate between despising terrorists and empathising with them ....

Given the diametrically opposed political views of both posters, I have to think the one who has quoted the other has done so in an admonishing manner. I won't, as usual, name names, but I do wonder how disingenuous it might be to write into one's signature a quote from another poster. Is it libel? Is it slander? Is it just bad form? Regardless, read some of today's political threads, and you'll see the quote this question refers to.

Thanks.

SmileWavy

Just bad form. :)

Probably somebody I have on my 'ignore' list.

Judging by the spelling, it looks like it was from one of our friends who drives on the wrong side of the road. Most of those folks seem to be well informed. I imagine that quote -- if genuine -- was taken out of context.

Hey that's me:) Libel? Slander? Gimme a break. I think Matts quote shows the heart and soul of the average liberal even though most deny it. Hey at least Matt admits it:)

If he tells me I took it out of context I'll remove it, heck I'll remove it if he asks period, no problem but I don't think he runs from his words and I imagine he would say the same today. I think it's a good reminder to myself and others what the left is really like when they are honest.

And no I did not paraphrase, it was a cut and paste quote.

Here's the link, judge for yourself.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251995&highlight=vacill ate

Firstly, the question was "Is it libel? Is it slander?" No one is accusing anyone else.

But since half the party is here, I wonder how quoting someone in this manner circumnavigates its way into a "left" or "right" issue. One day holding disgust for terrorists, then the next day sympathizing with them does not sound to me like a political position.

David,

At first I was surprised to see it, but after seeing it a few more times I came to a soothing realisation: the person who decided to integrate my quote into their signature is really only 'promoting' an idea that has the potential to give immoderate people pause.

The quote's original context:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/251995-darkness-visible-interview-kurt-vonnegut.html

But I appreciate you calling attention to it because it is not insignificant ....

How in the hell could it be libel or slander? Seriously?


Anyway, Matt I assume you meant it now and then....am I wrong?

Re: Re: Libel, slander or just bad form?
 

Admonish: to express warning or disapproval to especially in a gentle, earnest, or solicitous manner

That's what I mean...

You tell me. I came to the attention of it simply because, if anything, it looks strange, and secondly, you and Matt aren't exactly brothers in arms politically.

With regard to that, I still don't see the "left" or "right" reasoning behind posting his quote. As you say:

I think it's a good reminder to myself and others what the left is really like when they are honest.

Huh? :confused:

Could you elaborate?

Libel and slander are specific legal terms, both of which require the actor to "publish" an untrue statement which tends to damage the reputation of another-libel is written disparagement, slander spoken. It is completely impossible for a quote to be either.

If you said it, why should you be ashamed to be quoted on it, unless completely out of context (and I'll admit my ignorance on this point, as I can't bring myself to read the polarized political debate on this board).

Sure, I think Matt is being honest and he confirms what most liberals truly believe. There is a severe "self loathing" of the US at heart of the leftist movement. Though many if not most a leftist feel that the US is a cancer on the ass of the civilized world few admit it in public. Rather most cry crocodile tears of "don't challenge my patriotism" knowing full well the truth of the accusation.

Thank you. It's been a while since I've taken courses on libel and slander.

Impossible, you say, for a quote to be either. How about when a quote is taken out of context? Or when the quote is used to support vast generalizations?

What confirms this confirmation of liberals "loathing" the U.S. I live in liberalville (you don't), and I don't see liberals walking around (or crouching in dark corners), despising our country, loathing it or otherwise.

In short, you're generalizing.

So the quote is a celebration of Matt's political insight into himself - according to you.

Of course I'm generalizing and sure there are exceptions. But for the most part liberals are ashamed of America. Sort of a "white-guilt" on a grander scale.

When I read what matt wrote I was like "Wow, it's refreshing when one of them actully admits it!" So I saved it..

You know, I don't think you're doing anything wrong with your little quote there but I do think your statement is a mischaracterization and one that does nothing but disservice to a vast population (49% at least) of Americans, likely including me.

Personally - that it to say speaking for myself - I don't feel like my patriotism should be in question when I say that we as Americans must not only be leaders in the world (if not the clear leader of the world) but that we must also be willing to follow. The old axiom is that a good leader would not ask a subordinate to do something they themselves are not willing to do themselves. I believe that the United States should subscribe to that, I also don't believe that because I think we're the "good guys" and we should not be torturing or running clandestine prisions, keeping people from justice classified as "enemy combatants" or other questionable items for debate that my American patriotism should be in question. It seems like instead of debating the issue your attacking the opposition - it's a classic distraction technique.

Being that you, Len, are a pretty smart fellow - I'm actually a little surprised and disappointed that you would resort to something so small.

I am a Liberal and I am an American and I care deeply about my freedom as well as yours. What exactly about my views do you find to be an affront to my patriotism?

Why should I feel that "the US is a cancer" anywhere in this world. I think the US is going through a bad time and I hope that we will emerge from it stronger and more resistant to these problems than we were before we entered it.

I you are genuinely offended by the generalization then you can assume you're the exeception.

LOL!

You're sure there's a 'self-loathing American' out there, even if you have to go all the way to Australia to find him!

Len, you're a crack-up.

I'm confused. First it has been established that a quote is neither libel nor slander whether it is taken out of context or not. Second, Matt himself says he doesn't care, so why does anyone else?

Matt's an American Tech.

Ask yourself this question and be honest:

Has America been on level a positive or negative influence in the world?

Hear, hear.

I used to get the ***** kicked out of me at elementary school because I was proud to be half a "yank".

Guess what? People are still kicking the ***** out of me (but verbally now!), and I'm still proud to be half a "yank".

On second thought I cannot imagine any constructive discussion on this here as the shields are already up.

I had dinner with a guy like Matt a couple years back. He was honest and the discussion was more about our philosophical differences than "gotcha" verbal jousting, it was great. Oh well, I'm heading off to the watering hole to watch the Steelers get pounded:)

According to my kids, I am somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan. The license plate on my SUV is 'Attilla'. OK, it's a Hyundai, so that joke, too.

I try not to avoid debates like this, as seeing either end of the political spectrum gives me the shakes. And I'm equally afraid of Christian and Islamic Fundamentalists, God protect us from his followers.

IMHO this was not a political statement, but more 'Stockholm Syndrome' on a societal level. We are being held hostage by terrorism. I believe we have a better chance uf stopping it if we understand it. Example: Islam looks at the cross the way Blacks see the stars and bars and Jews see the swastica.

Islam is still pissed at 'us' for the Crusades. They take our Red Cross aid to survive, but at least some marketing genius figured out using the Red Crescent was better packaging.

95% of the worlds people just want to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads. Even as a conservative, it's hard for me to figure out how killing people really helps.

Yep. Born in N. Cali.

I forget....are we in the argument phase, discussion or insult phase?

OK....so to the statement. Ambiguous.....

Historical....the victor usually writes the History...unless the defeated rise up from the ashes and gains economic superiotity and you get revisionism from the PC crowd.

Let's look at the American thingy in the late 1700s.....

The American rebels started an uprising and peacekeepers arrived on various occasions to quell the violence. At one unfortunate event the "a few goverment buildings" were burnt.

Funny. Coulda sworn that was an Aussie avatar.

So, inferring from a quote that vacillating between condemning and empathizing with terrorists somehow speaks for a majority of persons in the U.S. who reject this country's current political position and for that have openly been called traitors is a victim-less crime or red herring?

Hmmm...I always think of Sergio Leone...but he's Italian...

Yep, Fall River Mills in Modoc County.

My father was born and raised in Modoc, played varsity basketball for Big Valley High School before earning scholarships to play at the College of the Siskiyous and Chico State ....

In 1970 he tried out for the Golden State Warriors, then moved to Melbourne to play semi-pro basketball and met my mother on a train bound for Sydney.

The rest, as they say, is history ....

No one is inferring that but you. Len put it there for his own reasons but the quote is just a quote. Don't blame someone else for how you interpret that quote or think it makes your "side" look. Perhaps instead of getting upset with Len, you should look more at why the quote was written and whether you agree with what Len thinks it means.

(edit) BTW, I never even SAW the quote until you pointed it out...

To me, I think it's in bad form....

I also post in another forum, and a couple people do that there too...I've always thought it was kind of immature...

(Sorry to whomever has it in their sig).

Well, Lendaddy is nothing if not "forever young"......... ;)

Obviously you're not very observant. And maybe you should read this thread a bit closer to understand how the inference came to be via LenDaddy's explanation.

As for upset? Never. People like you bring sunshine to my day...;)

How about the observation that you started this thread without even knowing WHY Len put the quote there in the first place? What about the observation that Len himself told you why he saved the quote 4 posts down the thread after you had already decided that it was "disingenuous" and done in an "admonishing manner". Would those observations mean that you had already inferred a meaning from the quote simply by reading it?

Oh wait, that's what I said in the first place.

And happy to bring a little sunshine into your day...

Yes, you did say that in the first place, Sunshine.

Now how about the fact that I am correct with my observation that the quote was disingenuous and posted in an admonishing manner?

But since Len is off watching the Steelers get their asses handed to them - which will happen - the Colts are unbeatable - since you're his mouthpiece for the next three hours, tell me where I'm wrong in my observation?

I support David's decision to turn the spotlight on this issue. His concerns are most certainly valid.

I could take umbrage with Len integrating it into his signature to push a political barrow, but I decided several days ago that all he is doing is promoting a challenging idea and stimulating debate.

Re: Libel, slander or just bad form?
 

ask permission first. Tend to agree with that quote by the way.

First I am not Len's mouthpiece (or any other part of his body for that matter).

My point is that the quote simply says what it says. It really doesn't matter why Len posted it in the first place because he doesn't editorialize it in his sig. He leaves it up to the reader to decide what it means. Now it would be different if he had some statement after it saying how this is how all liberals think. But that isn't the case. Someone else might read that quote and think "That Matt...what a kidder. Always kidding around." Again, whatever feelings that quote stirs in you are your own...not Lens.