Libel, slander or just bad form?

dd74 · 11-28-2005, 02:40 PM

A frequent poster on this board has a named quote from another frequent poster in his signature field that proclaims how on some days he feels undecided between denegrating and understanding the pov of terrorists in the world.

Here is the actual quote: I have to admit, there are days where I vacillate between despising terrorists and empathising with them ....

Given the diametrically opposed political views of both posters, I have to think the one who has quoted the other has done so in an admonishing manner. I won't, as usual, name names, but I do wonder how disingenuous it might be to write into one's signature a quote from another poster. Is it libel? Is it slander? Is it just bad form? Regardless, read some of today's political threads, and you'll see the quote this question refers to.

Thanks.

Drago · Drago's Garage

Just bad form.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Probably somebody I have on my 'ignore' list.

Judging by the spelling, it looks like it was from one of our friends who drives on the wrong side of the road. Most of those folks seem to be well informed. I imagine that quote -- if genuine -- was taken out of context.

lendaddy · 11-28-2005, 02:51 PM

Hey that's me

Libel? Slander? Gimme a break. I think Matts quote shows the heart and soul of the average liberal even though most deny it. Hey at least Matt admits it

If he tells me I took it out of context I'll remove it, heck I'll remove it if he asks period, no problem but I don't think he runs from his words and I imagine he would say the same today. I think it's a good reminder to myself and others what the left is really like when they are honest.

lendaddy · 02:55 PM

And no I did not paraphrase, it was a cut and paste quote.

Here's the link, judge for yourself.

"Darkness visible" -- an interview with Kurt Vonnegut

dd74 · 11-28-2005, 03:03 PM

Firstly, the question was "Is it libel? Is it slander?" No one is accusing anyone else.

But since half the party is here, I wonder how quoting someone in this manner circumnavigates its way into a "left" or "right" issue. One day holding disgust for terrorists, then the next day sympathizing with them does not sound to me like a political position.

Matt Holcomb · Matt Holcomb's Garage

David,

At first I was surprised to see it, but after seeing it a few more times I came to a soothing realisation: the person who decided to integrate my quote into their signature is really only 'promoting' an idea that has the potential to give immoderate people pause.

The quote's original context:

"Darkness visible" -- an interview with Kurt Vonnegut

But I appreciate you calling attention to it because it is not insignificant ....

lendaddy · 11-28-2005, 03:09 PM

How in the hell could it be libel or slander? Seriously?

Anyway, Matt I assume you meant it now and then....am I wrong?

dd74 · 11-28-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
Im not sure what you mean by quoted "in an admonishing manner." Admonishing??

Admonish: to express warning or disapproval to especially in a gentle, earnest, or solicitous manner

That's what I mean...

dd74 · 11-28-2005, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
How in the hell could it be libel or slander? Seriously?

You tell me. I came to the attention of it simply because, if anything, it looks strange, and secondly, you and Matt aren't exactly brothers in arms politically.

With regard to that, I still don't see the "left" or "right" reasoning behind posting his quote. As you say:

I think it's a good reminder to myself and others what the left is really like when they are honest.

Huh?

stevepaa · 11-28-2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
I think it's a good reminder to myself and others what the left is really like when they are honest.

Could you elaborate?

greglepore · 11-28-2005, 03:17 PM

Libel and slander are specific legal terms, both of which require the actor to "publish" an untrue statement which tends to damage the reputation of another-libel is written disparagement, slander spoken. It is completely impossible for a quote to be either.

If you said it, why should you be ashamed to be quoted on it, unless completely out of context (and I'll admit my ignorance on this point, as I can't bring myself to read the polarized political debate on this board).

lendaddy · 11-28-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stevepaa
Could you elaborate?

Sure, I think Matt is being honest and he confirms what most liberals truly believe. There is a severe "self loathing" of the US at heart of the leftist movement. Though many if not most a leftist feel that the US is a cancer on the ass of the civilized world few admit it in public. Rather most cry crocodile tears of "don't challenge my patriotism" knowing full well the truth of the accusation.

dd74 · 11-28-2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by greglepore
Libel and slander are specific legal terms, both of which require the actor to "publish" an untrue statement which tends to damage the reputation of another-libel is written disparagement, slander spoken. It is completely impossible for a quote to be either.

Thank you. It's been a while since I've taken courses on libel and slander.

Impossible, you say, for a quote to be either. How about when a quote is taken out of context? Or when the quote is used to support vast generalizations?

dd74 · 11-28-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Sure, I think Matt is being honest and he confirms what most liberals truly believe. There is a severe "self loathing" of the US at heart of the leftist movement. Though many if not most a leftist feel that the US is a cancer on the ass of the civilized world few admit it in public. Rather most cry crocodile tears of "don't challenge my patriotism" knowing full well the truth of the accusation.

What confirms this confirmation of liberals "loathing" the U.S. I live in liberalville (you don't), and I don't see liberals walking around (or crouching in dark corners), despising our country, loathing it or otherwise.

In short, you're generalizing.

So the quote is a celebration of Matt's political insight into himself - according to you.

lendaddy · 03:44 PM

Of course I'm generalizing and sure there are exceptions. But for the most part liberals are ashamed of America. Sort of a "white-guilt" on a grander scale.

When I read what matt wrote I was like "Wow, it's refreshing when one of them actully admits it!" So I saved it..

mikester · 11-28-2005, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Sure, I think Matt is being honest and he confirms what most liberals truly believe. There is a severe "self loathing" of the US at heart of the leftist movement. Though many if not most a leftist feel that the US is a cancer on the ass of the civilized world few admit it in public. Rather most cry crocodile tears of "don't challenge my patriotism" knowing full well the truth of the accusation.

You know, I don't think you're doing anything wrong with your little quote there but I do think your statement is a mischaracterization and one that does nothing but disservice to a vast population (49% at least) of Americans, likely including me.

Personally - that it to say speaking for myself - I don't feel like my patriotism should be in question when I say that we as Americans must not only be leaders in the world (if not the clear leader of the world) but that we must also be willing to follow. The old axiom is that a good leader would not ask a subordinate to do something they themselves are not willing to do themselves. I believe that the United States should subscribe to that, I also don't believe that because I think we're the "good guys" and we should not be torturing or running clandestine prisions, keeping people from justice classified as "enemy combatants" or other questionable items for debate that my American patriotism should be in question. It seems like instead of debating the issue your attacking the opposition - it's a classic distraction technique.

Being that you, Len, are a pretty smart fellow - I'm actually a little surprised and disappointed that you would resort to something so small.

I am a Liberal and I am an American and I care deeply about my freedom as well as yours. What exactly about my views do you find to be an affront to my patriotism?

Why should I feel that "the US is a cancer" anywhere in this world. I think the US is going through a bad time and I hope that we will emerge from it stronger and more resistant to these problems than we were before we entered it.

lendaddy · 11-28-2005, 03:52 PM

I you are genuinely offended by the generalization then you can assume you're the exeception.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Sure, I think Matt is being honest and he confirms what most liberals truly believe. There is a severe "self loathing" of the US at heart of the leftist movement.

LOL!

You're sure there's a 'self-loathing American' out there, even if you have to go all the way to Australia to find him!

Len, you're a crack-up.

Nathans_Dad · Nathans_Dad's Garage

I'm confused. First it has been established that a quote is neither libel nor slander whether it is taken out of context or not. Second, Matt himself says he doesn't care, so why does anyone else?