Female acqaintance just got out and made herself pregnant...

[Dennis Kalma]

OK, I gotta ask the esteemed intelligentsia on this forum.

I have a friend, strictly platonic (I am married) who just announced to the world that she is pregnant. OK, fine, only odd thing is that she went out and got herself artificially inseminated as there was "no man in her life". Intent apparently is to raise the kid on her own.

I guess I am so shocked by this as she is one of the most intelligent people I have met, albeit somewhat of a flake....but isn't there enough kids being raised by single parents in the world already?

My thoughts are torn between walking away and never seeing her again or seeing what I can do to assist. Part of me thinks that this was the most selfish thing anyone could do (her opinion is that she always wanted to be a parent and have the fun of raising a kid) and the ultimate in narcissistic behaviour and part of me (the fundamentalist Christian part) helping her in spite of the mistake I think she has made.....

Are there other points of view? THoughts?

[svandamme]

whatever floats her boat, as long as she delivers to the kid what it needs, and doesn't pull hte "i'm a single mum so i need to be treated specially"


if it makes her happy , suck it up , it's not your judgement to make...

as long as she does deliver, but that goes just as much for any parent. so no need to look at this in a special way.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Dennis Kalma
OK, I gotta ask the esteemed intelligentsia on this forum.

I have a friend, strictly platonic (I am married) who just announced to the world that she is pregnant. OK, fine, only odd thing is that she went out and got herself artificially inseminated as there was "no man in her life". Intent apparently is to raise the kid on her own.

I guess I am so shocked by this as she is one of the most intelligent people I have met, albeit somewhat of a flake....but isn't there enough kids being raised by single parents in the world already?

My thoughts are torn between walking away and never seeing her again or seeing what I can do to assist. Part of me thinks that this was the most selfish thing anyone could do (her opinion is that she always wanted to be a parent and have the fun of raising a kid) and the ultimate in narcissistic behaviour and part of me (the fundamentalist Christian part) helping her in spite of the mistake I think she has made.....

Are there other points of view? THoughts?

Your point of view is exactly what mine is, and I'm as far from a fundamentalist Christian as can be.

A mother-father family is the best environment for a child. Narcissism does seem to be what's driving a lot of similar pregnancies/adoptions.

But why take it out on the kid?

By all means, help.

I have an ex- GF who, as a single mom, adopted two older Russian orphans a year and a half ago, and I try to involve myself in activities with them as much as I can. It's healthier for the kids to see even an occasional male role than to be only with mom, IMHO.

[masraum]

Originally posted by Dennis Kalma


I guess I am so shocked by this as she is one of the most intelligent people I have met, albeit somewhat of a flake....

Well there ya go.

My thoughts are torn between walking away and never seeing her again

Why. She didn't kill or mame someone. Planning for a kid is better than letting one happen by accident.

or seeing what I can do to assist. Part of me thinks that this was the most selfish thing anyone could do (her opinion is that she always wanted to be a parent and have the fun of raising a kid) and the ultimate in narcissistic behaviour and part of me (the fundamentalist Christian part) helping her in spite of the mistake I think she has made.....

Are there other points of view? THoughts?

Hmm, the first option seems fairly unChristian-like to me. Just because she'll be a single parent doesn't mean the kid will turn out bad, just like two parents doesn't guaranty an angel. There are plenty of two parent families that turn out kids/people that are all kinds of messed up.

Is she a friend or an acquaintence? If the answer is friend then I would think that you need to work on yourself some before you worry about someone else's mistakes. If just an acquaintence then just don't worry about it. Love thy neighbor, there's someone else much more capable that will be the judge when the time comes.

[Moses]

Unless you were the unwilling sperm donor, you have no business being offended.

If she is truly your friend and you are truly a Christian, she will get your unflinching support.

The measure of a man is found in the strength of the commitments he makes and keeps, including friendship. Step up. This is not about you.

[svandamme]

actually , this must be a serious mind bender for the christian fundamentalist brain....

one side says : no marriage , evil , hell and damnation
the other side says : all life is sacred

and then
the logic says : immaculate conception : new jezus is on the way
the macho says : why didn't she call me?
the doctor says : luckey she didn't call him... ca-ching
the lawyer says : damn , no marriage, no divorce, no bizniz

[FrayAdjacent911]

I side with the 'selfish' feeling. I don't think there are many situations in which a single woman should attempt... or even want... to have a kid on her own.

If she wants the 'fun of raising a child'... she probably doesn't realize how much WORK it is raising one. I don't have any, but I do have a 1 year old niece and a 5 year old nephew. I am SO glad that I can give them back when I watch them. I couldn't handle it on my own.

I also think this is a characteristic of the 'ME' generation. She's going to intentionally put a child into a less than optimal situation for her own gratification.

Honestly, I hope she pulls it off, and raises a good kid... but the cards are already stacked against her.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by FrayAdjacent911

I also think this is a characteristic of the 'ME' generation. She's going to intentionally put a child into a less than optimal situation for her own gratification.

there is never an optimal situation
the statistics are against any optimal situation, ever, because the world get's more crowded every day , more exchausted, more raped by man ...


so if you want optimal , you better not make babies untill you are a multimillionaire, with enough safeguards to keep even the nastiest hazards at bay.

and even a billionair can't keep everything covered. so there is no guarantee that this billionaire's kid will be better , happier, healthier or more succesfull than this woman's child...

point is . it's HER choice not mine, not the poster of this thread, or the Pope.... the least one can do , is to give here a chance, without any judgement... to do whatever she can to give this kid a chance.

any judgement you put on her, any negative sentiments or actions...will reflect on the child , and that's not her fault, but the fault of whoever passes judgement.

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by techweenie
Your point of view is exactly what mine is, and I'm as far from a fundamentalist Christian as can be.

A mother-father family is the best environment for a child. Narcissism does seem to be what's driving a lot of similar pregnancies/adoptions.

But why take it out on the kid?

By all means, help.

I have an ex- GF who, as a single mom, adopted two older Russian orphans a year and a half ago, and I try to involve myself in activities with them as much as I can. It's healthier for the kids to see even an occasional male role than to be only with mom, IMHO.

Well said...help and support, without rancor. It is what it is and condescending is the wrong approach. My extremely bright and accomplished sister divorced with a young son...I was more than willing to act as a role model for her son when she thought appropriate. So should you, when your friend thinks you can.

Her now college age son and I are the best of friends...I would not have missed it for the world.

[svandamme]

as a single mum kid, i'de say , don't get involved unless asked to be involved... and even then , keep a low profile, children will attach themselves to whoever is around... and will hurt more than an adult would if that one is suddenly not around, or not who he appeared to be...

there's nothing worse than a father figure who bails.

i'm 29 now, i'm still f#cked up
it's not my mothers fault
it's the ***** who pretended to be my dad from my 4 to my 13
i was told he wasn't my dad at the divorce i was 13, he bailed, and i still miss him more than i miss my mum, despite me knowing for fact that he was a rotten character...

whatever you do , do NOT pretend to be anything to the kid , when you are not that. be cool, supportive, do not bloody steal the show or show up when not specifically asked to show up... and if you're asked, be low profile ... some people do not understand , that low key , in these circumstances.. is more than gold, it's more than platinum... it's essential


don't talk untill you're asked to talk
don't assume anything
or judge

[COLDBASS]

If you involve yourself, then at some point you will become emotionally attached. You'll never be able to walk away without feeling some guilt...in the end its probably best for the child if you stay away...

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by svandamme
whatever you do , do NOT pretend to be anything to the kid , when you are not that. be cool, supportive, do not bloody steal the show or show up when not specifically asked to show up... and if you're asked, be low profile ... some people do not understand , that low key , in these circumstances.. is more than gold, it's more than platinum... it's essential


don't talk untill you're asked to talk
don't assume anything
or judge

From your heart to my nephews, that is exactly his sentiments, which I followed to the letter.

[pbs911]

Originally posted by Moses
Unless you were the unwilling sperm donor, you have no business being offended.

If she is truly your friend and you are truly a Christian, she will get your unflinching support.

The measure of a man is found in the strength of the commitments he makes and keeps, including friendship. Step up. This is not about you.

This is one of, if not the, most straight forward, honest, unselfish and logical responses I have ever read here.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

You're trying to impose logic on (1) women and (2) the desire to procreate (which I personally find rather self-destructive in the context of modern society).

[Flatbutt1]

Originally posted by svandamme
as a single mum kid, i'de say , don't get involved unless asked to be involved... and even then , keep a low profile, children will attach themselves to whoever is around... and will hurt more than an adult would if that one is suddenly not around, or not who he appeared to be...

there's nothing worse than a father figure who bails.

i'm 29 now, i'm still f#cked up
it's not my mothers fault
it's the ***** who pretended to be my dad from my 4 to my 13
i was told he wasn't my dad at the divorce i was 13, he bailed, and i still miss him more than i miss my mum, despite me knowing for fact that he was a rotten character...

whatever you do , do NOT pretend to be anything to the kid , when you are not that. be cool, supportive, do not bloody steal the show or show up when not specifically asked to show up... and if you're asked, be low profile ... some people do not understand , that low key , in these circumstances.. is more than gold, it's more than platinum... it's essential


don't talk untill you're asked to talk
don't assume anything
or judge

+1, words beyond wisdom here. DAMHIK

[aways]

I think it's outrageous that this kind of thing is sanctioned by this society. The kind of woman who can't find a man to marry, or doesn't want a man to marry, has no business raising a child. They seem to regard having a baby as analogous to going to PetsMart and buying a cat. That said, what's done is done, and anything you can do to provide a male role model in the child's life would be beneficial.

P.S. Intelligence has very little to do with it. Many, if not most, women who go this route are intelligent, but they are also unfortunately, narcissistic. It's good judgement that they lack.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by aways
The kind of woman who can't find a man to marry, or doesn't want a man to marry, has no business raising a child.

you have no business passing judgement , untill you are free of sin yourself...

are you free of sin?
are you Christian?!?


i'm no longer a christian... but for what it's worth , i do not pass judgement on her choice... i know i'm not free of sin.


it is her decision to make, hers , and hers alone
you don't know what kind of problems she went through
or what idiology made her decide she doesn't need a man

[aways]

Originally posted by svandamme
you have no business passing judgement , untill you are free of sin yourself...

I feel perfectly comfortable making moral judgements. Whether I am personally "free of sin" is irrelevant. The problem with many in Europe, is that they are usually incapable of making moral judgements..., which, now that I think of it, is proably a good thing, because when they do make moral judgements, they usually get it wrong. For example, their view that the US and Israel are the biggest threats to world peace...right.

P.S. Nothing I've said should be taken as a criticism of single moms who are placed in that position throught no fault of their own... It's the ones who CHOOSE that lifestyle from the beginning that I'm "passing judgement" on.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by aways
I feel perfectly comfortable making moral judgements. Whether I am personally "free of sin" is irrelevant. The problem with many in Europe, is that they are usually incapable of making moral judgements..., which, now that I think of it, is proably a good thing, because when they do make moral judgements, they usually get it wrong. For example, their view that the US and Israel are the biggest threats to world peace...

P.S. Nothing I've said should be taken as a criticism of single moms who are placed in that position throught no fault of their own... It's the ones who CHOOSE that lifestyle from the beginning that I'm "passing judgement" on.

bollocks, let's change the subject to a US vs Europe dirt throwing contest... as if that has anything to do with it...

we're talking any woman , anywhere in the world, having a child on her own , by her own choice, ... and if she chooses to do so, by artificial insemination , then that's not a national , or global hype, she does that by her choice, and it is her choice, not the choice of the "USA" or of "Europe" or of what Anyone on this board may think or feel or want .

it may be because she has experienced first hand that many guys are indeed jerks, #holes, and l00sers....

maybe it's because her dad or uncle molested her

or may be because she is a lesbian , or whatever...

it's her body , her choice , her opportunity

don't drag europe , or democrate , or liberal dirt trash talk into this....none of us her have any right to judge her life, not even me.

it's not irrelevant if you are free of sin or not
are you christian ? if so , it is very relevant , cause Christ himself made it relevant

if not ... then wher do your moral judgements come from? and who gave you the right to be the supreme judge?

[aways]

Originally posted by svandamme

it may be because she has experienced first hand that many guys are indeed jerks, #holes, and l00sers....

maybe it's because her dad or uncle molested her

or may be because she is a lesbian , or whatever...

it's her body , her choice , her opportunity

"it's her body , her choice , her opportunity"... how 'bout her narcissism.

If she's so screwed up in her relationships with men, she ain't gonna make a very good parent, now is she?
I guess the welfare of the child is irrelevant...