When exercising your rights becomes selfish, there has been a severe misunderstanding of the nature of rights and respect for other people. Is it your position that those who choose to exercise their rights are selfish? I myself think that is a very selfish position for you to take. Who is more selfish, the person exercising their rights or the person demanding that someone else waive their rights?

I have fought tickets, why, because if the state wants my money, I will make them work for it. I don't expect to people to pay me money just becuase I caught them doing something against the law, and the state shouldn't either. If people choose to just pay and go on their merry way that is their choice, but I rather enjoyed my fighting speeding ticket and would do so again.

Hum. If I speed I pay the fine, go to traffic school. When I was ticketed, I was speeding. If I wasn't then I would contest it.

My wife was ticketed for parking in a handicapped zone. We took pictures of the area and the judge agreed that the markings were so faint, no reasonable person could be expected to know they were parking illegally. That is when you contest something.

But if you know you are guilty, then yes, you are being selfish.

Normally I would agree with you Steve, but the traffic enforcement system in America is so corrupted into a moneymaking machine, that I agree its fair to do whatever you can to fight it. If it were really about safety, different story. If it really expressed society's views of responsible vs. irresponsible behavior, fine. It's neither of those things, it’s a back-door tax in the guise of law enforcement.

Are you back on your meds bro?...I just want to encourage whatever is bringing you back to sanity...Keep it up!

:p

Yea, I got this Paxil/brandy/viagra cocktail thing I finally perfected (after burning down the garage twice), so I'm feeling better.

My only problem now is that I'm absolutely obsessed with Sandy Berger ... I did a goggle earth on his house and I keep thinking that if I could only go there, I'd get those dam documents back!

My mental health team says it will pass, but I don’t know ….

Yes. It's called personal responsibility...2 words that are not in mul's vocabulary. It's more preferable for those types of people to scam.

its like this - if the guy is good enough to catch me then I deserve it, just like if I get scammed by a grifter or con-man. I harbor no ill will. The guy/girl out witted me and deserves my chink. The cop nailed you. Either get a better radar detector, a faster car, a stolen plate, or just drive the speed limit.

Or you could have taken my advise for your court appearence...

(why am I telling me this, you fired me!)

Rodeo. The problem must only exist in your area. Traffic enforcement is a shadow of what it was 20-40 years ago. I used to see CHP all the time, not so much now. Even city cops put traffic enforcement on the back burner. You really must be really speeding and most likely changing lanes quickly to get their attention.

Ask your local department/city what revenues/number of citations versus previous years? I would expect to see a declining curve.

Actually in Chicago (land of the cameras), they have cameras on the front of buses that capture license plates....then they mail the ticket to the person. Another way is the IPass system, which is an electonic prepaid toll paying system, and it's registered to you. They know the time it takes to get between two tolls going the speed limit. They can figure out how much you are speeding by calculating same, then they send you a ticket.

Moneymakers all around the country ... and not just for states and municipalities. Insurance companies buy equipment for the cops, they use it to write more tickets, the companies get the data and raise rates. It’s a dirty game, and it's all about money.

I was at a City Council meeting once when they were discussing establishing a municipal traffic court. Two hours of discussion on costs vs. revenues, and how much $$$ would fall to the bottom line. Not a word on safety.

It got so bad here, the state legislature passed a law that no more cities could establish traffic courts.

As far as I’m concerned, it demeans the citizens, 99% or whom become lawbreakers, the cops, who are reduced to toll takers, and the law, perverted to accomplish one thing ($$$) while it pretends to be about another (safety).

So, tickets issued to those observed at ~100+ are about revenue, not safety? Shirley, you jest.

There is clearly a line, and Mul was over it.

But that does not mean the entire system is not corrupt, it is.

Even Saddam executed guilty people I'm sure.

And stop calling me Shirley :)

I also got nailed by a red light camera in SF. I did not even know I was going through a red light. I got an inkling from the car honking at me. But there I was in my white volvo in the picture. Just tells me to be more aware of the lights and how you can lose them in all the city lights.

Paid the fine. I was wrong. I had proceeded without confirming the light was still green.

I think red light cameras are all about safety and I encourage their use.

Not suggesting that every traffic law is dumb, or every fine undeserved. Just pointing out that the system is grounded in money, while it pretends to be about something else. To me that's the definition of corrupt.

Are 50% of the fines undeserved (65 in a 50)? 60%? 70%? i don't know, but when a cop on a radar trap has a choice of 8 out of 10 cars that go by, something is wrong.

Beautifully put. You have hit the nail squarely on the head.

I still think it is safety. Now a speed trap on the outskirts of a podunk town is about money.

My son doing 85 on a 50 mph country road where he could not see the cop until he was on top of him is still about safety. My son's. He was foolish to drive that fast when he can't see around the corner.

35 in a 25 school zone is about safety. You would have to describe a specific situation where it isn't. I think the preponderance is on safety.

I think the number of citizens who get ticketed is extremely small.

Yeah, right.

I don't think I know a single person who has not received at least one ticket in their lifetime. I would venture to guess that the percentage of ticketed (driving) citizens would be very near 100%.

Is there anyone here that has never been ticketed?

As most people get a ticket during the first few years of driving, I am certain with you that nearly everyone has received a ticket sometime.

I guess I should have said the number of drivers who annually get a ticket is extremely small. If it was really about money I would expect more than one ticket every ten years, wouldn't you?

I could only give you anecdotal evidence. There is science, however, that is easily found. Look at the National Motorists' Association, they used to do some work in that area, or at least collect data.

As I recall, the experts pretty much agree that speed limits should be set at the 80th (??) percentile, meaning the speed that 80% of the cars on a particular road drive at or under, weighted for weather, visibility, etc.

The way limits are actually set has nothing to do with that. I think they are closer to the 40th or 50th percentile, maybe lower.

Now, an anecdote. The road down the street from my house becomes a main artery, 4 lanes, into the city. The limit is 25mph. If I get on that road and I use 100% of my concentration on driving 25 mph, I can barely do it. It’s work. If I forget for a second, I'm going 40 or 45.

The cops sit there 4-5 times a month and grab people going to work. If you tried to drive 25 on that road, you would be a hazard. It’s extortion, plain and simple.

(I take the back way :))