Actually it can be.


Mul, You may want to read this: (Again in this case you need to talk to the prosecutor. By the time you get to the judge you're toast....and a no-show on the officers part does not automatically give you a win) http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/ObjectID/263BA173-F4C9-4AAA-A6C15FD19F164B09/catID/CF015A63-6B69-4EED-A34B6F4035C8BE0E/104/263/ART/


"Presumed" Speed Limits
Being charged with violating a "presumed" speed limit means you are accused of driving at an unsafe speed, considering the conditions at the time you were ticketed. If you're accused of violating a "presumed" speed limit, you have two possible defenses:


"The presence of heavy traffic can sometimes be a plus. With lots of other cars on the road your argument could be that "everyone was exceeding the speed limit by about 10 mph and I would have endangered myself and others by driving slower than the flow of traffic."

What section of the CVC were you written up for i.e. what does it say on the ticket??

Is this a friend of yours:
http://namb.la/traffic/ :)

Shaun, all I'm getting at is there is not necessarily any correlation between speed and the safety of yourself or those around you. Some countries, and some states, recognize that.

I don't want to re-open the track vs. street driving debate; we have plowed that ground enough. I was merely commenting on Janus' over the top reaction. "Criminal" and "attempted murder" are just a bit extreme. He was speeding; that's all.

You will also notice I suggested he just "pay up". Not, mind you, because he broke the law, but rather because the cop has him dead to rights. It's not worth his time to fight it. The chances of success are too low to be worthwhile; play the odds in other words.

As far as the "very Christian" comment, why would you even bring that up? With no understanding of Christianity, I guess one could assume any "good Christian" would just take his lumps like a good boy. Wrong. One of Christianity's most basic tenets is to fight dishonesty, corruption, laziness, and the like. I think we can all agree that the stated goal (public safety) of traffic enforcement has been somewhat corrupted by a dishonest, corrupt system put in place by lazy public servants with possibly just a bit too much unsupervised power, and no accountability for their actions. There is no burden of proof anymore; the system is broken. I think it is our duty to fight back whenever we think we have a chance. I'm sorry though, Mul, this does not sound like the time.

Thanks Jeff. The Christian thing was directed at Mul, my mistype. He wears it on his sleeve like an SS armband. It is exactly this type of disingenuine behavior that makes me rail against the "religious."

Re: Re: Fighting speeding ticket tomorrow.
 

Damn straight. What the hell is this world coming to? Only in California.

What would Bush do? :D (If you don't like the law, break it or subvert it and make up excuses if you get caught. )

Sorry about your situation Mul. It sucks and I hope you make out OK. I found going to the track helped me control my speeding urges.
-Chris

I knew Mul's moral-political stance would come into play here. Some of you are quite transparent that you'd attack him on that level. How about sticking to the facts of his speeding and getting caught doing it?

I always loved that one. The day our gubmint got into the business of granting "priveledges" instead of ensuring rights is the day "we the people" started losing control of a gubmint obstensibly "of the people, by the people, for the people".

Humm, nothing since 7:40 a.m. and it's almost 3:00 p.m, the day of Mul's court appearance. Can't be good for Mul. Maybe a contempt charge was thrown in?

Mul, this may backfire on you. This cop most likely testifies in the same courthouse, in front of the same judge on a weekly basis. His credibility has been long established as either being very good or very bad. If it is very good, the judge will trust his word and by attacking him you may do yourself in.

Do what you think is right, David

The poor SOB's probably walking home...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fighting speeding ticket tomorrow.
 

No, he wasn't just speeding. He was doing 100+mph. That is way beyond mere speeding. It is reckless and criminal. I stand by that. People have loved ones on those public roads. A guy who does 100+mph belongs in jail.

If you'd ever taken a ride with me you'd know I drive both of my Porsches slowly like a little old man in the right hand lane - on the street. I don't even use fifth gear in my 911 because it is too easy to get distracted and find myself doing 90mph. If you want to go fast, sign up for a DE or an autocross. I prefer autocross because it is safer IMO. I own two Porsches because I can drive them (safely) on the street and then haul butt like a maniac at autocross.

So maybe I should pose the question back at you: Why do YOU own a Porsche? I sincerely hope you didn't buy it in order to risk other people's lives on the freeway.:mad:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fighting speeding ticket tomorrow.
 

I average about two DE's or open lapping days a month in mine. That's where I normally get my fix. Do I exceed the posted limits on public roads? Yes. Is that "risking other peoples' lives"? I don't think so. I have not been involved in an at-fault accident in my 30 years of driving. Speed does not automatically equate to danger. It is way too simplistic to assume it does. Some of the most dangerous drivers out there are the slowest. I keep up with traffic. I find many who drive like a little old man, even in the slow lane, are oblivious to the hazzards they create. It's the "boulder in the stream effect". They are awfully damn proud of their legal driving habits, but equally clueless (or even callous) of the danger they present.

Granted, you're bringing up some good points. The problem is, on some stretches of road, even in L.A. where traffic is miserable, it is almost dangerous to stick to the speed limit in places where 70-75 mph, even upwards of 80 or 90, is found to be sticking with traffic.

Also, there have been more instances than I can count where slow lane traffic that's driving the speed limit, has caused accidents when faster traffic is either entering or exiting the freeway.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that there are too many variables involved to think the speed limit always dictates true traffic speed.

In principle, true. But I'm not seeing traffic flowing at 100+ anywhere in the state -- even between L.A. & Vegas at zero dark thirty.

That's right. Which is why I think our boy better have worn his comfortable Mephistos to court.

100+ mph is at least 20+ mph over the traffic flow, even on the fastest SoCal freeways. With driver skill and lane discipline as bad as they are in the US, blowing by others at that speed, with a 20+ mph differential, is simply dangerous.

I'm not saying I've never seen 100mph on an empty stretch of road - after all, the 911 will get there and then pull back down to safe speeds, quite quickly - but if you've had the car more than a month, why bother? I drive like a little old lady nowadays.

And if you've lived in LA, you know that S/B I-5 to 170 at 9pm weeknight is not an "empty stretch" of road.

Seems to me the cop was being pretty lenient to write him up for only 90mph, either than or Mul's speedo is fast so that his claimed speed is overstated.

I don't disagree with you sir but I do believe your own horse is a rather lofty ride .

In my opinion, I think you feel the way I felt just last Saturday when I got pulled over for going very fast.

1st - I felt like a child, I knew I did something wrong and I felt bad for doing it, very bad in fact. It's been bothering me since (2 days), and it will bother me for a while longer as I wonder "what the heck was I thinking going that fast. This is called remorse

2nd - Finacially it's a waste of money I could have spent on more track days or upgrades for my car, not that I can't afford it, but CA is definetly not my charity of choice, I mean if they really ticket you so that you become a safer driver, why not just make yourself visible instead of playing a hiding game? this would remind much more often then when I don't even see you. Not to mention it would keep everyone else in check too.

3rd - I think all of this has tought you and me a lesson, slow down, be safe and enjoy life, the risk are not worth it.

Finally, hope the CHP doesnt show up, I beat 2 tickets this way, 2nd try to work a deal with the prosecutor/cop prior to court so you CAN go to traffic school and not have it on your record I do this probalby every 4 years, and finally ask to see when the last time was that the road was "surveyed" for speed, I beat 1 ticket this way, if it's over 10 years old wich beleive it or not is actually likely it should be dismissed due to the technicality.



SmileWavy

I'm on no high horse here, oh Saint Janus. Your arguments only serve to prove my point. The appropriate speed is that which the traffic around you is travelling. Not at Mul's 100 mph, and not at your pokey old man pace. Both are equally dangerous in traffic.

While you may very well be "safe" in that you are not directly involved in the wreck, it happens behind you as some impatient idiot swerves to get out of the line of cars and traffic jam forming behind you. He takes out a a car or two in the process, causes a big wreck, and you putt along on your merry way.

But it's not your fault. You are a safe driver; plodding along in your Mr. Magoo-like fashion, ever oblivious to the carnage piling up behind you. You folks are the real hazard to navigation, and are far too pompous and self-rightous to even realize it. "If only people would slow down like me, they would all be safer drivers" tends to be the thought process. Good for you. The rest of us live and drive in the real world. You make that more dangerous for us, arguably more so than the speeders.