Need a Police officer's opinion

mikester · 01-29-2006, 12:49 PM

I know we have some Police Officer's here and I need a point of view from the job...longish but I appreciate it.

I witnessed an incident this morning at my local flying field.

By Flying Field I mean Radio Control airplanes and by local I mean just about the only one in LA. The Sepulveda Basin which is 'run' by the LA Parks and Recs department.

We have a hot head who is a regular at the field who flies very dangerously as a habit. Typically when he's going to go up those who recognize him take a bench. It's a public field and anyone is welcome to fly there - it's basically a park. He's had a few major run ins with a few people who are also regulars. Typically the run ins are with guys who in my opinion are stand up fellas trying to show him the rules; He's a belligerent a$$.

This morning he crashed an airplane on takeoff and blamed it on one of the guys he has had a number of outbursts with. The crazy fella was raving mad, getting in the other fellows face and saying that he'd just go buy another one and be back with it next week. yadda yadda.

Well the other fellow went out to fly his airplane and as he is taxiing it back the crazy fella comes roaring down the pits and the taxiway with his other airplane and runs it into him. Now, this is an airplane with a small gas engine on the front spinning at 10 or 11 inch hard plastic prop (hard like carbon fiber reinforced cut a steak easily or stab someone with hard) spinning at more 4000 rpm. Luckily the dude sees it just in time (we're yelling and warning etc) and jumps aside but still gets hit by the wing. The airplane does a little twirl but the dude is quick and the prop misses him. It was an attack to be sure and one that could have ended in severe injury.

Now; let me explain how he could have caused the crazy fellow's crash. We use radios and have a frequency spectrum of 50 channels allowed us by the FCC; we have to share them with eachother and if someone has a radio on the same channel as you, you don't turn on until he's done with it. We have a frequency control board in place and you reserve your frequency with an ID or pin. While you have it the frequency is yours, typically you are supposed to limit your time to 15 minutes but if there isn't anyone else around there's nothing to worry about. If someone were to turn on the same channel while you were flying the receiver on theplane wouldn't know which radio to listen too and either lock our of freak out (depending on the type). That's what the good guy was accused of.

Now after the attack he was pretty shook up but ready to call the police. Which he did; we wrote down the crazy fella's licence plate incase he decided to leave (which he has done in the past). The cops eventually show up and start taking statements from the two primarily involved. They say that because the crazy dude is accusing the good guy of the shoot down and that the plane according to him was worth over $1000 (making it a felony) they have to believe both and if they take one in they have to take both in.

The cops where there for a while...nothing seemed to come of it by the time it was time for me to go. I gave the good guy my number and said call me if you need a witness.

This crazy guy has been a problem for a long time; it's a public field and the cops and park rangers have been called numerous times on him but they rarely show up in time. This time they did and still nothing comes of it...

From a cops perspective - what's going on here? The park isn't safe when this guy's around and it's really the only good place to fly in LA. I've been doing this for over 20 years and never witnessed a problem child like this. I'd like to be able to do this with my son when he's old enough but I can't take him to that park...

Anyway a bit of a rant but I need to know a cops perspective.

singpilot · 01-29-2006, 01:02 PM

Mike;

I flew R/C for many years as well. Seems to me this kind of thing is uaully controlled by being a member in a club which controls the field.

As I remember, Sepulveda basin is 'controlled' by City or County. I have seen this type of behavior, and seen just about every kind of reaction and play. If you escalate, he gets back however he can. remember, he doesn't have to play by the rules.

You need to convince the person responsible for the field (at the City or County level) to ban the guy for being a danger to other lawful participants. And a danger to the County and City. And their insurance.

The police will not ever help. Unless you have an officer in your group who will witness.

Does this guy ever fly high? High enough to violate the ceiling you guys have? Does he do it when I am flying overhead in a $40 million jet with VIP's aboard while landing next door at VNY? Maybe that's the way to get him if he does.

DavidI · 01-29-2006, 01:15 PM

Mike, I want to make sure that I understand what happened. There were several guys flying RC planes. Frequencies were shared and and hothead guy crashed his plane. He blamed it on another hobbyist and later sent his airplane at the person he believed caused the crash? If that is the case, and probable cause exists to believe that hothead did it intentionally (meaning he did not do it because of malfunction or something), he may be arrested for assault with a deadly weapon (245(a)(1) PC. This may be somewhat difficult to prove unless there is additional information such as statements made by the hothead showing that his act was intentional.

On the other side, the act of crashing the airplane would be difficult, if not impossible, to prove because as I understand it there are several hobbyists who share the same frequency. That arrest would not take place unless there was significant proof such as statements or something.

Unfortunately (and fortunately), ********* behavior cannot be regulated by law enforcement. It sounds like he is a punk. I bet collectively you and your fellow hobbyists could make him not want to fly his planes at that park with some creative thinking.

If I am wrong in my assessment, let me know and I'll provide some more information, David

Jared at Pelican Parts · 01-29-2006, 01:27 PM

If he tried to hit me with an spinning prop, Id knock his ass down, and kick him repeatedly in the face until he was subdued. self defence.

Jims5543 · 01-29-2006, 01:37 PM

I would bring a video camera to this place every time I went. Catch a few of these tantrums on tape.

Jims5543 · 01-29-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by procon
Next time this guy goes off the deep end video tape him.

I guess I owe you a beer now.

mikester · 01-29-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidI
Mike, I want to make sure that I understand what happened. There were several guys flying RC planes. Frequencies were shared and and hothead guy crashed his plane. He blamed it on another hobbyist and later sent his airplane at the person he believed caused the crash? If that is the case, and probable cause exists to believe that hothead did it intentionally (meaning he did not do it because of malfunction or something), he may be arrested for assault with a deadly weapon (245(a)(1) PC. This may be somewhat difficult to prove unless there is additional information such as statements made by the hothead showing that his act was intentional.

On the other side, the act of crashing the airplane would be difficult, if not impossible, to prove because as I understand it there are several hobbyists who share the same frequency. That arrest would not take place unless there was significant proof such as statements or something.

Unfortunately (and fortunately), ********* behavior cannot be regulated by law enforcement. It sounds like he is a punk. I bet collectively you and your fellow hobbyists could make him not want to fly his planes at that park with some creative thinking.

If I am wrong in my assessment, let me know and I'll provide some more information, David

You got it right.

There were witnesses that heard him say to another fellow "Watch this."

The other fellow is his friend though and won't go against him. That's just it; There is a club at the field of which I am a member. But the club doesn't control the field the County Parks & Recs department does.

Regarding the ceiling; he does fly over the 400ft ceiling I'm sure but it's hard to say how high 400ft is without something actually showing it. The Prado damn club has to float a ballon to represent the ceiling due to the nearby airport and anear miss last year with a small aircraft and a model jet.

He does have friends at the field; the club can't come to a consensus on what to do. The president says to shun him while other board members try to befriend him to get his hotness cooled off.

The fellow he assualted (I felt is was assault with a deadly weapon as well) is an older much smaller gentleman than this young; 30ish hot head.

It really seemed that the officers who responded felt all were guilty and were going to be taken in or nobody was.

I must admit; while I hung back there was quite a few fellows who made it seem like a lynch mob a bit for the crazy guy. The larger population is quite tired but the City and County have continually not responded to any calls for remedy.

Best I can do is write a letter and show up to the county use meeting.

singpilot · 01-29-2006, 02:02 PM

Boy, talk about a double-edged sword. The County ASSuMEs that you guys are policing yourselves. The announcement that you have one uncontrolled guy who might be jeapordizing the whole show is what they would use to close the place. Will be tough, but almost has to be done.

I can imagine what the incident would look like if a full-scale aircraft was involved. For the record, one of the guys I fly with had an R/C helo above his altitude on final last year. He reported it to the tower, and all they could say was "Watch out".

mikester · 01-29-2006, 02:06 PM

Was that at Van Nuys or elsewhere? I'm surprised the Tower would respond that way; At the prado field the FAA got involved.

That's no joke - what I have is a model - what you have has people in it.

You win.

And Yes; this is the kind of thing they could seriously use to close the field. OR they could regulate it like many other municipalities do (including whittier).

singpilot · 01-29-2006, 02:22 PM

That was at VNY. I am always surprised that the 400' ceiling thing flew (pardon the pun). I sometimes have a chance to glance over there when landing north.

Keep us posted on how it's going.

mikester · 01-29-2006, 02:41 PM

On days when the pattern is normal (north to south I think) the real planes are pretty far away from the models. But then the wind reverses the pattern they fly right over the model field. The rules require that pilots use a spotter to watch for full scale (and other dangers) which I do and probably 50% of the other folks do.

60 years of luck I suppose...

HardDrive · 01-29-2006, 03:21 PM

Hire some tranny hookers to go hit on him everytime he's there.

He will either

a) get scared off

b) do something that gets him arrested.

steve185 · 01-29-2006, 03:43 PM

mikester
It sounds like there could be enough evidence to support the charge of assault with a weapon, the airplane being the weapon. The first incident involving the frequencies would be a civil matter unless there was evidence that it it was intentional.
Did the investigating officers track down and speak with the hot head? Maybe the whole thing can be resolved if the hot head agreed to stay away.
Steve

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Seriously, you have learned 2 lessons today.

#1 - They are 'peace' officers. If to keep the peace they arrest both, no skin off their nose. Activate police at your own risk.

#2 - As has been shown in a recent SCOTUS reviewed case, the Police have no duty to protect _YOU_!

Welcome to the 21st century!

DavidI · 01-29-2006, 06:50 PM

I would come up with a way to make this punk's hobby a nightmare, within the law of course. If you asked suggestions from this board, I'll bet you will be amazed. Sometimes the law prohibits common sense and idiots can be what they are.

David

LeeH · 01-29-2006, 08:26 PM

If this were a bad movie then there would be a team effort to disuade him from participating. It would involve one guy in a van in the parking lot with a controller, a box of frequency chips, and a cell phone. Another person would casually wander by the board and report which frequency this guy was using to the guy in the van. Eventually he would run out of airplanes/money and not come out to play. I'm sure this sort of thing would never happen in real life.

Joeaksa · 01-29-2006, 08:48 PM

Lee,

That sounds like a plan. Run him out of money by crashing a few of his planes, then drop him a note. Tell him when he grows up and starts acting like an adult he can return and not before.

JoeA

Mulhollanddose · 01-29-2006, 08:54 PM

Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord...I believe that...It is so painful plotting and planning vengeful mischief. I think it is best to just step back and let somebody else take care of him, or just simply watch him implode upon himself...It will happen.

mikester · 01-29-2006, 09:13 PM

Hey, I appreciate the suggestions on 'revenge' fellas but at the end of the day I need to be able to say I'm honest.

Of course this guy is endangering people every time he shows up which is more than *I* show up to that field (He lives in the close to it so is there often).

Regardless; I left the field before all events unfolded. The cops were still talking to the good guy when I left and the crazy one was sitting in his truck - seemed to be sulking.

After it happened I took a few names and numbers down of the guys I know saw it and were willing to be witnesses. Including myself, then I took the license plate down of the crazy one just for good measure.

I gave it to the good guy and he seems to have made use of it.

The crazy one was arrested I've heard on an outstanding warrant.

He actually crashes fairly often but has an endless supply of money for replacements it seems.

The good guy is going to do what he can to get the crazy one banned but to be honest the Recs and PArks dept in LA have never been able to get something like that together.

It's a pretty bad situation; hopefully it will resolve in the favor of safety for a great hobby.

Honestly; this all happened in front of me and I have to say the entire time it was happening and I could see the crazy one boiling over and I wondered if I should do something to stop it before it got out of hand. Then I didn't and of course it did. Now I wasn't the only one who could have stopped it nor was I the closest...but should I have?

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

If the guy is truely crazy, you do not want to involve yourself more than you have. Be a good witness and don't get directly involved. Seriously, the guy could have weapons in his truck.