Drifting vs. Turning: which is faster?

[masraum]

Drifting the way the kids are doing it these days is not the fastest way around a track, but I have read someplace, maybe Frere's "Sports Car and Competion Driving", that in days gone by a 4 wheel drift was the fastest way around the track. Like in the old mid 60's pre aero grand prix cars. You actually wanted a small drift angle and it would produce faster lap times, but it had to do with big sidewall high slip angle tires. He then goes on to say that because of tire technology and construction that it's no longer the fastest way around.

I wouldn't try to "educate" your friends. They obviously aren't going to listen.

Besides, it's more fun knowing you're smarter than they are. They don't have to know it too.

[Tervuren]

One of the major reasons F1's do not drift, is that the aerodynamics of the car are designed for the car to be aimed straight into the air for maximum downforce, and downforce provides a major part of an F1 grips. When they slide it sideways, they loose their carefully designed aerodynamics, and thus traction.

What works is a game of aerodynamics, tires, suspension, surface, power, chassis, almost everything.

My race car has a tread orineted towards longitudal forces, four wheel drive, I typicly pop the brakes, put it a little sideways, hold the steering into the corner, and stay hard on the throttle all the way through, keepting it a few degrees sideways.

Doesn't work on every corner, higher speed corners I prefer to keep the car fairly straight, main reason is at higher speeds, there is less torque at the wheels. I've trippled my power recently, and have not taken it to a track yet, so we'll see how I treat things then.

A lot of racing series tire, chassis, and bodies, are designed around keeping the car fairly neutral. Go back a few decades ago, and this may not always be the case. Such as the late 1950's F1's.

[kach22i]

Come to think of it, don't all those dirt track racers drift through the turns?

[RallyJon]

Key point: on a dirt track the coefficient of static friction is very close to that of kinetic friction (see the first two posts). When that is the case, there are many more options for going fast no matter which way you're pointed.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally posted by RallyJon
When that is the case, there are many more options for going fast no matter which way you're pointed.

LOL, like knobbies or paddles!

[widebody911]

Then there's always...

[ted]

Originally posted by kach22i
Come to think of it, don't all those dirt track racers drift through the turns?

Drifting today seems to be more controlled over steering.

The front tires on the car above are not drifting, they appear to be counter steering a power slide.
Perhaps these cars for brief moment at track out actually are in a classic 4 wheel drift.
Those cars look like they transfer wieght like a city bus at rush hour. Lots of lean.

That said the optimized traction slip angles for slicks on an asphalt road course is around 5 degrees. Exceed that and you are just losing traction and melting tires.
With slicks the real skill in corners is to maintain the 5 degree slip angle. Basically a 5 degree 4 wheel drift.

[RallyJon]

When you get it just right, you barely need to countersteer at all.

[kach22i]

Thanks for the information.

Now a chance to post some Lancia Stratos rally cars getting all dirty and muddy.

http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/motor_show/geneva/preview/holistic/1702/stratos.html

[Nader]

Full-on drifting is not the fastest way around a turn on a road course. This question should be asked in the autoX/racing forum.