Stop the Feds!...Arrests in Alabama Church Fires

[fastpat]

The federal government, once again, exceeds its' authority granted by the Constitution in involving itself in these local crimes.

Arrests in Alabama Church Fires
Posted by William L. Anderson at 05:29 PM

Authorities have arrested three Birmingham college students and have charged them in the string of church fires in rural west Alabama. However, I see that the young men have been charged in federal court.

Somehow, the federal government is arguing here that the alleged actions by these students somehow had a bearing on interstate commerce. Why in the world are these not state charges?

This is yet another example of the continuing federalization of criminal law. The federal courts never were set up to be the criminal venues of choice, but that is what is happening today. This is onerous, to say the least.
http://blog.lewrockwell.com/

[wcc]

Who cares how they were charged! I guess they shouldn't have started the fires in the first place! A-Holes! I could care less of these politics you are trying to push. These people broke the law! Either way State or Federal they broke the law and they will pay.

I normally don't talk politics, cause what I know barely scratches the surface. I barely know the basics cause it gets involved rather quickly and honestly I loose interest.... That's why I have numerous lawyers at my disposal. Cause I can't keep it all straight......

[Joeaksa]

Slopat,

So you want these young kids to be released because they were arrested illegally? Just let them go so that they can burn down more Churches on a whim?

This is not a personal attack but you are getting close to being on the cast of looney tunes...

JA

(go ahead Z, pull this comment like you did the other one about Slopat)

[ZOA NOM]

Talk about crying wolf. Relax and read some of the stories leading up to the arrests. The FBI got involved when it appeared to be a rash of hate crimes toward either a race or religion, which is a Federal Offense. I listened to the news conferences today, and all the local officials praised and thanked the Federal officials for their help in resolving the case. Sometimes, the federal folks have more effective tools than some local levels. Just how advanced do you suppose the crimefighting is in rural Alabama?

[stuartj]

Originally posted by wcc
Who cares how they were charged! I guess they shouldn't have started the fires in the first place! A-Holes! I could care less of these politics you are trying to push. These people broke the law! Either way State or Federal they broke the law and they will pay.

I normally don't talk politics, cause what I know barely scratches the surface. I barely know the basics cause it gets involved rather quickly and honestly I loose interest.... That's why I have numerous lawyers at my disposal. Cause I can't keep it all straight......

I can see why you would loose interest in politics. Lots of us have a lose grasp on such matters.

[VINMAN]

I dont give a crap who arrests an arsonist. As a firefighter thats a sore point for me. If one one my brother firefighters would have been killed at one of these fires, guess what, those scumbags would be facing murder charges. They told the police they started the first few fires as a joke. Nice joke!

But let not your heart be worried Pat, I'm sure the American Criminal Liberties Union will come to their rescue.

I gotta agree With Joe A on this one.

[fastpat]

All but Noah missed the point entirely.

The federal government has no constitutional authorization to arrest anyone in these arson cases. The proper authority in these cases is either the police within city limits, the county sheriff, or the state police depending on state law. If you think the state of Alabama can't handle these criminal cases properly, you'd better think again. In any case, it's only the people of Alabama's business what they do with them.

[Jim Richards]

I wouldn't be surprised if local and/or state authorities charge these idiots and the Fed's back out. It doesn't sound like a hate crime / civil rights issue.

[Jeff Higgins]

U.S. citizens have become far too comfortable with the Federal Government overstepping its authority. This is only an isolated symptom of a much larger problem. Yes they did the "right thing" and arrested the bad guys. It is pretty damn hard to begrudge them that. In today's climate, anyone that does is seen as some kind of fringe element loony toon. Look at the bigger picture here folks.

It's the old "frog in the boiling water" syndrome, and we have been collectively in that kettle with the Federal government turning up the heat for generations. Each additional step they take, each additional responsibility they assume, each little piece of authority they wrest from local control, seems reasonable and necessary at the time. Anyone voicing dissent is shouted down. Taken collectively, however, the story is much different. Our Federal government today has powers far and beyond what our Constitution allows them to have. They have powers that the framers of that document were wise enough to keep from them. The Federal government is today what those wise folks feared the most. Like I said, this case is a symptom of that. We should be worried.

[Rick Lee]

I also thought the feds got involved because of possible "hate crimes", which are fed. jurisdiction. I certainly don't agree with fed. "hate crimes" laws. But as long as they're on the books, I don't see what harm was done by getting these criminals off the street and saving the next church.

[techweenie]

Interesting.

Some of the people who constantly whine about Christians not getting equal protection/consideration are not noticing that defining the burning of Christian churches as a potential hate crime is, in fact, equal treatment.

And some of the people who are usually sticklers for the law are now playing the "end justifies the means" card.

I guess some people are having a wee bit of trouble with objectivity.

[Rick Lee]

I don't think it had anything to do with the religious denomination, but rather the fact that the churches were all black churches.

[VaSteve]

Actually Rick I think some were white.

[Rick Lee]

Oh, I guess they were equal opp. criminals then. Still glad they were caught and I hope they get nice boyfriends in the pokey.

[kach22i]

Suspect: Church fires started as 'joke'
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/08/alabama.churches/index.html

Moseley told investigators that he and Cloyd set the other four fires "as a diversion to throw investigators off," the affidavit states. When questioned by investigators, "Moseley said the diversion obviously did not work.............................................. All nine fires occurred in rural counties southwest of Birmingham -- five in Bibb County on February 3, and four in Greene, Sumter and Pickens counties on February 7. Five of the churches had predominantly black congregations, and four had predominantly white members."

From college to jail, what a bunch of dumb F-k's.

I don't see how the fed are getting involved with the charges, the investigation until they know any better I can accept.

[928ram]

The churches were all baptist, the supects all are not.
The FBI is free to help on any level requested by the more local authorities as they see fit, they seemed to have felt requests were reasonable.
The Church Arson yadayada act of 1996 seems to put mass church burnings under the jurisdiction of the BATF; with incidents of church burnings averaging 100 per year and an interstate problem with many unsolved, one would assume that any incident of mass church burning would warrant investigation by that agency.
Today is Thurs, the suspects' hearing is on Fri., at which time jurisdiction/venue will be determined. A little premature in the anti-fed outrage, no?

I fail to see the "joke". Where's the "joke"? What's the punchline? These kids aren't claiming college-aged and drink or drug induced stupidity, but rather a joke. Where's the funny in multiple arsons whatever the targets were.
I supect these idiots will be in a bit more trouble for their second round of fires, pre-planned with the intent of throwing investigators off their trail. Some real criminal intent, that.

Lots of relief and dismissive attitudes with hate crimes apparently out of play, but I have to wonder about these kids and what set them off on this adventure, and whether it started or ended here.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by 928ram
Today is Thurs, the suspects' hearing is on Fri., at which time jurisdiction/venue will be determined.

I did not know this, nice to know there is a little due process still out there.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by 928ram
The churches were all baptist, the supects all are not.
The FBI is free to help on any level requested by the more local authorities as they see fit, they seemed to have felt requests were reasonable.
The Church Arson yadayada act of 1996 seems to put mass church burnings under the jurisdiction of the BATF; with incidents of church burnings averaging 100 per year and an interstate problem with many unsolved, one would assume that any incident of mass church burning would warrant investigation by that agency.
Today is Thurs, the suspects' hearing is on Fri., at which time jurisdiction/venue will be determined. A little premature in the anti-fed outrage, no?

First off, excellent reply.

Second, look at who started this thread, our resident "doom and gloom" poster. That is why it came out so soon as another "hated federal intervention" in our lives as opposed to their helping to stop more churches from being burned down.

The feds were called out as it was thought to be a hate crime, period. Up until the time that they were caught many people thought that it was going to be a lot different than a couple of college students doing a prank.

Course we all know that this was Bush's fault anyway you look at it.

[928ram]

Another thought on this...

I live in AL, but I'm not from here and live way down south at the Gulf Coast; I really have no idea of the "lay of the land" in the rest of the state. I do know that some areas have a very large population of black residents in and around the cities upstate. Now at this point the suspects have "lawyered up" and have surely been coached what to not say, but it begs to question the possibility that 3 white boys from the city headed out under the assumption that all rural Baptist churches are "Black" and it was in fact a hate crime gone wrong due to ignorance?? One of the lawyers was awfully quick (perhaps too quick?) to point out that they were not done based on race or religion.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by 928ram
One of the lawyers was awfully quick (perhaps too quick?) to point out that they were not done based on race or religion.

It would take another OJ Simpson jury to buy the concept that burning churches wasn't related to religion.