Considering a 3rd-gen RX-7...any good forums?

Sarc · 03-07-2006, 04:26 PM

That are similar to Pelican? I've come across a very clean one and would like to learn more. I've always been drawn to their looks (still looks great for a 14 year old design), but have always been wary of their reputation.
Thanks in advance.

Jims5543 · 03-07-2006, 05:45 PM

In a word, No.

http://www.rx7club.com/

You have to understand that this is a F&F car so there is a flock of idiots that you have to sift through the find the usefull ones.

Try their racing section and 3rd Generation Specific sections.

I am a hard core Rotorhead and have a 3rd gen engine in my RX-7. My dad has a 3rd Gen (commonly referred to as a FD) The letters the the generation years. 1st = FB, 2nd = FC.

I have helped him do a lot of tuning and reliability mods to it.

They are wonderful cars that require little maintenance compared to a car like a 911. You need to keep the oil changed every 3K miles, do not bother w/ synthetic just a good quility dino oil. The fuel filter should be changed yearly, along with the air cleaner and a coolent flush on a yearly basis. Always run a good 2 cycle oil in your gas as well this will greatly increase engine life and reduce the chance of any problems. I have been running it in my car for 4 years now and make 400RWHP problem free.

You should have a PPI done by a reputable shop. Compression test is a must. These cars and nickle and dime you to death. You want to check to make sure the PO did the basic reliability upgrades. For example, the air seperator tank on the coolent system is plastic and prone to bursting a metal one is available on the after market. The Pre-cat needs to be taken out and replaced with a downpipe that is wrapped to reduce heat. Your rear turbo and rear rotor housing will thank you. The added bonus for that is about 1-2 lbs more of boost which is safe to do and will net you about 40 more HP and put you in the 300HP range. My Dads car has a downpipe, cat-back, intake, pully kit, and a Power FC and puts approx 320HP to the wheels. It is VERY fast weighing about 2700 lbs.

Poke around this guys site, his shop is one of the best in the country.

http://www.pettitracing.com/
From his site:

Quote:

The Following recommendations are intended to keep your car out of the shop and on your favorite road

#1. Always keep up with routine maintenance schedules as outlined in the owner's manual

#2. Upgrade your chassis and engine grounding points. (FREE kit with your first order.)

#3. Replace cooling system plastic air separator (A.S.T), well known for splitting in half with no warning causing massive coolant loss and overheating. Our very popular aluminum upgrade units are always in stock.

#4. Replace that dirty fuel filter!!! Countless premature engine failures are caused by a dirty fuel filter. Don't let this happen to you. Poor fuel quality also contributes to engine failures ALWAYS USE PREMIUM FUEL!!!

#5. Install a turbo boost gauge! This is the only way to be sure the turbos are working properly. We produce several kits. All are easy to install, and come pre-wired with detailed instructions.

#6. Use fuel lubricant. This has been proven to extend engine life at least 30%. See Protek-R for more information.

#7. Get a fire extinguisher!!! A must have for any vehicle...that way you will never need it! Our auto fire extinguisher installs in minutes and looks cool, too.

turbo6bar · 03-07-2006, 05:55 PM

Dunno anything about RX-7s, but I gotta say that car looks great in that color combination.

Fun daily driver?

Jims5543 · 03-08-2006, 04:51 AM

If all the reliability issues are addressed, they make great daily drivers. My dad used his as a DD for about a year before he got it painted. Now its his weekend car and drive to work on Firday car.

He gets about 18 MPG with it City and 24 Hwy. Not the best but hell its a fun car to commute with.

I am dialy driving mine right now. I am doing a DE with it this weekend so I am driving it aroudn this week to make sure everything is cool and getting it reay. I just put on my underdrive pullies, I only use them on the track. Now I just need to bleed my brakes switch my pads and change the oil and I am ready to roll.

Jims5543 · 03-08-2006, 04:54 AM

Sarc - how many miles on it? Original engine? Original clutch? If the clutch is original have it inspected as well. You should get about 70K miles out of the factory one. If it was replaced at 50K there is a good chance it was driven hard and abused.

If you end up buying it remember to properly warm it up and cool it down. It should idle for about 45-60 seconds before you shut it down. I like to let mine sit for about 3 mintes and then I start it again and let some cool oil circulate through the turbo again then shut it down for good.

89911 · 03-08-2006, 04:58 AM

They have a couple of these that run at our DE's. In a word.....FAST! These cars have had a lot of work done on them, but seem solid. They make a big brake kit for these that will fit also, since the stock brakes are a bit lacking for heavy track use.

Jims5543 · 03-08-2006, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89911
They have a couple of these that run at our DE's. In a word.....FAST! These cars have had a lot of work done on them, but seem solid. They make a big brake kit for these that will fit also, since the stock brakes are a bit lacking for heavy track use.

I am running my stock brakes. I have stainless lines, Motul fluid, power slot rotors and Hawk Black pads. I consider stopping my 400HP car heavy track use and I have never had a problem with my brakes.

They come stock with 4 piston front calipers and are really up to the task. I would not waste all that money on one until you really feel like your having brake issues. I have not felt the need to upgrade mine yet.

slow&rusty · 03-08-2006, 06:50 AM

I think the 12A \ 13B get a bad rap for poor relaibility - high maintenance. Mostly due to owner neglect and lack of maintenance. Great engines and great power potential.

My fav. is the first gen, which I prefer to call SA22

Good luck and I hope you buy that FD!

Yasin

Sarc · 03-08-2006, 07:25 AM

Hey Jim/guys,
Thanks for the info. Right after I posted I stumbled upon RX-7club, and I know what you mean about the F&F crowd- awful lot of "Help! what kind of Bomex body kit should I get?" type topics, but there seems to be some good faq sections and technical postings.
I've always had a love for these cars (former gsl-se owner), but the FDs in particular. It's always been the rep they have that have shyed me away. That and the fact that it seems to be impossible to find one that is as close to stock as possible (save for the reliability mods). So whenever that right one pops up, I always take notice.

How many miles can one expect to get out of an original engine? It seems so many have only 60K on them and have 10K on a new engine? Is it simply a case of neglect?

How easy is DIY?

Isn't there another reliability mod involving the vacuum hoses under the intake manifold? I recall awile back (late 90s) a magazine had a project FD whose goal was to make a reliable DD with only a minor increase in power. I walked away from the article with the impression that, given the right treatment, the FD can be a reliable, fun, relatively inexpensive car to maintain. Wish I could remember the magazine.

In regards to this car, it's a 94 with 20K miles. Two owners. Kind of odd, but the current owner has only owned it since fall '05 and is using the "need a backseat for the kid" reason for selling. As far as I know it's all original with no reliability mods performed. He's asking 23K, which seems high to me. At that price it's hard to ignore what kind of 911 I could get.

Thanks again, guys, for all your input.

Paul

Some more pics

Rot 911 · 03-08-2006, 07:29 AM

Damn that car looks like it just came off the showroom floor!

Jims5543 · 08:29 AM

With only 20K miles on the odo you might be able to get an extended warranty. I have a friend with a 94 with 30K miles and just got the turbos replaced under warranty.

Why do people need engines after 50-60K miles? Easy same as some turbo P-cars needing them. Owner neglect and abuse.

You HAVE to warm up these cars and cool them down. They are race cars on the street.

Can you get rid of all the vacume hoses? Yes, it will cost you though. You can go to a stand alone ECU like a Wold3D and eliminate all the vacume lines except for about 3. I would strongly suggest going to a single turbo then.

Otherwise you can either pay a shop or DIY it over a weekend. I mean replace all the lines yourself. Its not that hard. Once you take off the intake plenum (the fingered thing on top) most all your lines will be exposed. I am more intimidated by my 911 when it comes to DIY, I fond the Mazda cars to be very friendly to DIYers.

You see that radiator cap on top of the plastic tank in the bottom picture. That is the plastic tank that needs to be replaced it is a ticking timebomb that will kill your engine.

I hate stock FD's. The engine compartments are cramped and filled with tons of hoses and wires.

Here is my engine, look how wide open everything is and easily accessable. My fist job with an FD would be to swap to a single turbo and stand alone ECU. I like the Wolf3D a lot. Haltech and Microtech are good too. All have good support and following.

Sarc · 03-08-2006, 02:46 PM

Ha ha, I thought if I posted that engine pic, you'd be able to point something out. Well, if the separater tank has not been upgraded, it's probably safe to say no other reliability modes have been made, no?

Regarding the vacuum hoses, I thought I read something about replacing the existing hoses with silicone hoses and zip-tie then to ensure they're remain secure and avoid the problem of vacuu, leaks.
So what would the advantage be of going single turbo vs. keeping the sequential setup? Is the stock twin setup that troublesome?

Great looking engine, Jim. Care to divulge any RX/911 comparisons. Apples to oranges I'm sure, no?

More FD porn

Jims5543 · 03-09-2006, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarc
Ha ha, I thought if I posted that engine pic, you'd be able to point something out. Well, if the separater tank has not been upgraded, it's probably safe to say no other reliability modes have been made, no?

Regarding the vacuum hoses, I thought I read something about replacing the existing hoses with silicone hoses and zip-tie then to ensure they're remain secure and avoid the problem of vacuu, leaks.
So what would the advantage be of going single turbo vs. keeping the sequential setup? Is the stock twin setup that troublesome?

Great looking engine, Jim. Care to divulge any RX/911 comparisons. Apples to oranges I'm sure, no?

The PO probably has not done anything to the car other than routine maint.

I would fist replace that seperator tank and the fuel filter. Then get some good quality premix and start using it.

As far as mods. I have been thinking about that car while running around yesterday. I would keep it as stock as possible. A bone stock FD is rare these days. I would do the downpipe and air seperator and leave it alone and drive it.

I was talking with my dad last night, he gets 25MPG mixed driving with his and that is with the occasional pedal to the floor yeehaa!!

That car is stunning and so clean. With those low miles I would imagine your vacume hoses are in decent shape.

I would aviod the silicone hoses. Good rubber ones last 15 years if you think about it. The silicone tend so slip off even with zip ties and they tend to split. Stick with rubber you'll be fine.

I would seriously look into an extended warranty with thoose low mile that car would be a great candidate.

Good luck!!

Sarc · 03-09-2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro

I would keep it as stock as possible. A bone stock FD is rare these days. I would do the downpipe and air seperator and leave it alone and drive it.

That would most likely be my intent (maybe an upgrade to the later style OE rims) as that's what attracted me to the car in the first place-it's original, untouched condition.
Any recommendations on which company to go with regarding the warrenty?

Thanks Jim, again, for your input.

Noah930 · Noah930's Garage

FWIW: sometime during the last year, I think, Road & Track had a "sportscar classic" writeup on the (3rd gen) RX-7.

Sarc · 03-09-2006, 10:52 AM

Cool, Noah. Thanks.
I just found the link

Road and Track Article

AFC-911 · 03-09-2006, 11:00 AM

The sexiest car that Japan has ever produced! I'll have to get one of these someday.

Jims5543 · 11:23 AM

BTW- Reading the article reminded me of this. Have you drven one yet? When that second turbo hits you know it and its a pretty wild ride.

My brother and I are starting up an in car video service for DE's and motorsports. Our first client is Cameron from Pettit. We will be working with his 3 Rotor RX-8 DP car in a couple of weeks in a race format. Then we will be doing some promotional work with his supercharged RX-8.

I will try to throw up some small clips for you to see.

My favorite quote from that article:

Quote:

• Use a fuel lubricant with every tankful of gasoline to extend the life of the engine seals. Worth recommends a product called Protek-R, but using "even salad dressing is better than nothing at all," he says.

Sarc · 03-09-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
BTW- Reading the article reminded me of this. Have you drven one yet? When that second turbo hits you know it and its a pretty wild ride.

No I haven't, only having rotary seat time in my old 85 GSL-SE.
BTW, in the article it states that engines typically give out at 50-60K. Is that a pretty accurate statement??

Jims5543 · 03-09-2006, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarc
No I haven't, only having rotary seat time in my old 85 GSL-SE.
BTW, in the article it states that engines typically give out at 50-60K. Is that a pretty accurate statement??

No, my dads had 100K on it when the engine gave up and it lived an abused life.

My friend had a 13BT and it had 250K on it before it went. He took good care of it.

My car is cranking out a LOT of HP and has been problem free for 3 years now. Although not a lot of miles are on the engine (I street ported it and rebuilt it before turning up the boost) maybe 20K miles it never gives me a problem.

There are many examples of 100K plus mile engines out there. Just like your typical Porsche though, they are driven VERY hard during their lives. You typical Turbo Porsche needs top end rebuilds too. Its no different Turbo cars take a beating, how you take care of it and maintain it will decide how long it will last. I cannot stress enough to premix it, that alone will make the engine last a long long time.