You're being facetious, right? Please tell me you're kidding.

??? AP rounds ARE illegal. FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) rounds are not armor piercing.

I'm not aware of any "AP" (as in depleted uranium) bullets available to civilians. Furthermore, anyone who got a hold of such ammo and planned to shoot someone who wears body armor (usually cops) probably is not deterred by the penalties for using banned ammo, when they're already willing to commit capital murder. And I'm pretty sure any run of the mill .308 cartridge would cut through a Kevlar vest like a hot knife through soft butter. Any .50 cal. round would render any body armor totally useless. Anyone who thinks banning any kind of ammo will reduce gun violence is just ignorant or insane and certainly not fit to be making laws.

I believe the AP ban was targeting tungsten cored FMJ bullets in rifle calibers that were available as components a few years back. There were also a few stabs at Teflon coated' (whatever that means) bullets that were said to be effective against Kevlar body armor.
I'm not sure what the outcome of that nonsense was...

Here it is....

The Real Story on "Cop Killer" Teflon-Coated Bullets


In 1966, the coroner of Lorain County, Ohio, Dr. Paul Kopsch, Sgt. Daniel Turcus, Jr., of the Lorain Police Dept.,. and Dr. Kopsch's special investigator, Donald Ward, decided that armor-piercing handgun cartridges could be sold to those police departments or officers that either lacked rifles or might be interested in testing special-purpose handgun ammunition. Major factories had produced such ammunition for the police for years, but interest was minimal, accounting for low sales and little attempt at improvement. Kopsch, Turcus and Ward easily succeeded in making a round that out-penetrated the tame old factory offerings.

Their original KTW bullet centered around a case-hardened steel core. Even at standard velocities, this core would obviously hold its shape and drill through automobiles, cinder blocks and other materials likely to defeat conventional police handgun loads. This was literally the core of the solution, but presented difficulties. The hard core would not take rifling and would ruin the bore. A gliding-metal jacket with full teflon coating took care of this. The round gave good penetration but poor accuracy at long range.

Then a ballistic engineer at the H.P. White Laboratories suggested that a new alloy called Kennertium W-10 be tried, instead of the steel then used, to add the ballistic stability needed for increased accuracy at long range. W-10 is a sintered tungsten alloy that is heavier than lead and harder than most steel alloys. The new material worked, but it was expensive. The expense didn't worry the developers much, since the specialty bullets would not be shot in quantity. In 1969, the prices for the 200-gr. W-10 cored, Teflon-coated .38 Spl. rounds were about six times those of conventional metal-pointed "armor-piercers" of standard make. Sales were low in volume, though relatively high in profit.

By the early 1970s, supply of Kennertium became erratic, and KTW reverted to much lighter steel and, later, brass cores, both of which reduced the maximum range to about a third of that of the former type. KTW made a plus of the reduced range by noting that long range was not necessary in this type of round and, in fact, would increase danger to bystanders in metropolitan areas. The high prices and low sales volume continued; so did the distinctive pea-green teflon coating which now formed the only protection for the bore.

The claim was made by the media that the teflon also lubricated the point of impact and increased penetration dramatically. That claim, in reference to soft body armor, was convincingly refuted by government test, with the Justice Dept. saying it "has little or no effect on the penetrating qualities of the projectile" and the Treasury Dept. labeling it as "little more than a cosmetic additive." But the fact that Teflon protects the bore from the ill effects of the hard bullet core is incontrovertible. By end of 1981, KTW was offering its products in most handgun calibers. Sales were still limited to police agencies or police officers ordering through federally licensed dealers, and were still limited in volume.

Then, in January 1982, a dramatic change occurred. KTW got national, prime-time television coverage in NBC's "Cop Killer Bullets." Law enforcement officials had pled with NBC to drop the sensational coverage of the virtually unknown bullets lest they come to the attention of criminals. NBC not only refused, but rebroadcast the show six months later. Then the print media joined in.

Of course, KTW's restricted sales policies forbade a rash of sales to criminals, but many police departments had to answer frantic questions from officers and the public concerning the implied threat. The departments didn't have data, and some set out to buy and test KTWs to see 'just what the threat was. Other small bullet makers saw the light and soon a number of KTW competitors appeared to share in police testing budgets. Hard cores were the rule, high velocities and pointed bullets were preferable, but Teflon was considered unnecessary.

Some anti-gun members of Congress saw the light too. Here was an opportunity to get all sorts of free personal publicity in all sorts of media. All they had to do was introduce a bill with a catchy title to outlaw the import, manufacture of sale of..of what? The title, having been stolen from NBC, was easy: "A bill to stop the proliferation of 'cop-killer' bullets." "Cop-Killer" was the most exciting label to come along since "Saturday Night Special" and just as vague. Its "definition" was simply:

Any bullet that when fired from a 5" barreled handgun is capable of penetrating the equivalent of 18 layers of Kevlar.

Technical experts of the FBI, BATF, Secret Service and police forensic labs throughout the country felt this definition to be impractical and unenforceable, but none of them could think of a good one.

A four-year campaign to outlaw so-called "armor-piercing" or "cop-killer" bullets began. During that time NRA-ILA successfully fought off several bills that would have had grave implications for American gun owners and dealers. August 1986 saw passage of H.R- 3121, which while symbolically offensive, greatly narrowed the definition of proscribed bullets (earlier bills threatened to outlaw up to 85% of big game ammunition), and contained no criminal penalties for dealer or private possession, transfer or use of such bullets. An exception was made for misuse in a violent federal crime.

The law defined offending bullets as "a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun" and constructed entirely (except for trace elements) of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium or a combination of those metals. Further, the Secretary of the Treasury may exempt a projectile covered in the "armor-piercing" definition, but may not expand the law to include projectiles not expressly included in the established definition. - W.F.P.

I was shooting some stranger's Swedish Mauser at the NRA range about 10 yrs. ago. He had just picked it up at a gun show and it came with a crate of old ammo. Obviously not well sighted in, I took a shot and saw a big flash down range. The range office came running over and was all hot at us. We brought the target holder back in and my round had cut through that block of steel like it was Jello. The range officer took one of the rounds and cut the bullt out with a knife. Ta da - the guy had a bunch of steel-core bullets. Lord knows how old they were. They certainly would have cut through ANY kind of body armor. Banning this stuff is totally useless and just makes gun-grabbers feel like they've done something useful while they ignore real criminals.

All rifle bullets are armor piercing. Further, we don't want the government to regulate the least thing about self defense tools; not ammo, not gun size, nothing.

Now for another L. Neil Smith quote, "that every man, woman, and responsible child in this country, would be free once again to obtain, own, and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon -- rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- you feel is desirable for sport or self-defense, any time, any place you want, without asking anyone's permission."
from How Much Do You Want to Keep Your Guns?
http://www.lneilsmith.org/howmuchg.htmlfrom

Now tracer ammo, that's what I'm talkin' about!
Fun.

:D :cool:

BTW, the vast majority of cops killed in the line of duty are hit by cars while making traffic stops. Banning any kind of gun or ammo will not change this at all.

You're right again.
:rolleyes:
Do you just make stuff up for fun?

When we talk about armor piercing in the civilian sector, it's about piercing a Level IIIA cops protective vest, not an armored military vehicle.

Let's keep it sensible here, all you need to penetrate a level IIIA vest is about 1500 FPS or better and a spitzer bullet.

You'd be surprised at how many high-power rifles can be converted to full-auto, which would then make just about any level vest obsolete.

I agree.
AP designation for ammunition purposes though, has nothing to do with soft body armor.

Apples and oranges.
Rate of fire does not equate to penetration.
A single shot Ruger #1 is just as effective against soft body armor as an AK

Actually, that's not true. Several of the more vile members of the Warfare/Welfare state have tried to classify any round "AP" that could penetrate a IIIA vest.

Further, any actual AP ammo capable of being fired in a handgun is illegal; and the fact that the Thompson-Center Contender is chambered for both 7.62 Nato and 5.56 Nato is how those AP rounds are banned.

The projectiles were available as pulled pieces, but those went away a couple-three years ago; and the fedgov stopped selling any of them as surplus ammo.

Which is a huge federal crime and the law still doesn't have any affect on viloent crime in the US. Has a captured criminal ever confessed to NOT converting a semi to full-auto, so that he'd only be charged with murder or aggravated assault instead of that PLUS the fed. rap of illegally converting a rifle to full auto? Never happened.

I do recall now the T/C issue. I was not aware of a reclassification for AP.
Thanks.
Had a box of tungsten cored 7.62 bullets quite a few years ago. Took a while to figure out what they were. They weighed "funny".
I'm sure I threw them away, though.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

I do not see anything about the government's ability to limit anything dealing with Arms. No right to deny the right to carry, no right to limit what can be carried, and no right to limit the ammo that can be used.

The 2nd Amendment was drafted and included in the Bill of Rights to set forth the fundamental right of the people to rise up against an oppressive government. What gives the government the right to regulate the ammo that would be effective against it? Certainly not the Constitution.

SSDD from the gun grabbers.

They KNOW that approximately 1 MILLION 'assault rifles' were sold DURING the ban. And that the CDC and DOJ BOTH put out studies stating that the ban didn't do ANYTHING (didn't reduce or increase crime in any way)... but they still try to push their 'feel good' laws.

One of THE worst things I heard one of those politicians say about it... "...it addresses the right of every American to feel safe"

WTF? Where in the Constitution does it say Americans have a RIGHT to feel anything??

As for 'armor peircing'... yeah, there are cartridges with steel core 'penetrators'. Depleted uranium is NOT available to civillians in any way/shape/form. IIRC, DU is only used in large caliber cartridges used by the military, i.e., 20 and 30mm cannon shells (think A-10 Warthog here).

As for what Civilllians have access to, any old .30-06 'hunting rifle' will more than penetrate any armor vests our police use. Almost EVERY rifle cartridge will. That's why they call it 'bullet resistant', not 'bullet proof'.

Another aspect of 'assault rifles' that I have never really seen addressed in the media is that they are 'intermediate powered' rifle cartridges. The AK47 clones, and AR15s use an 'intermediate' power cartridge, while deadly, is significantly less powerful than most more common rifle cartridges like the .30-06, .308, .270, etc etc.

The dems pushing for the ban preach fear and doom... they want to scare the sheep into thinking they are in danger. Sadly, the tactic has worked before.... but I think that there are a lot of people waking up from the funk. I've heard more and more about die hard liberals and gun haters changing their mind when they realize the government and police CAN'T protect them.

It has some positives, but without getting too political about it, it seems like it's too easy for a few senators to hijack the entire process. It could use a little fixing... and term limits.