Can you make it to F1 on talent alone???

[speedracer]

Do any of the drivers from F1 come from humble beginnings or do you need a trust fund to get to that level?

[artplumber]

Most of them need connections and money from a sponsor.

[Tervuren]

Define talent...

Its not about how fast you can drive a car - F1 is about teams, not driver's. You've got to be able to work with people.

[GDSOB]

Kimi made it to F1 on his public speaking skills alone...

[nostatic]

Originally posted by GDSOB
Kimi made it to F1 on his public speaking skills alone...

that and his chastity

[Joeaksa]

Its sad to see that many drivers are chosen not for their skill, but for the sponsors they bring to the team.

There are several out there now who are there only for this reason and they are bordering on the dangerous point at times.

[GDSOB]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Its sad to see that many drivers are chosen not for their skill, but for the sponsors they bring to the team.

There are several out there now who are there only for this reason and they are bordering on the dangerous point at times.

I don't think its a recent phenomenon. Ride buyers have existed in all forms of motorsport forever. Anyone remember Marty Robbins?

If you have REAL talent, you'll get noticed by teams that will pay to win. Kimi had less than 20 races in cars when he went F1. There's a big difference between good and exceptional talent- ie: the Schumacher brothers.

[dd74]

It's teamwork - and a special type of teamwork at that. Michael Andretti had talent, money and lineage. But his social skills didn't work in F1.

[speedracer]

Some good points here. Thanks for the responses. Garth, didn't know that about Kimi. I would imagine even if you are going to become competitive at cart there is still going to be alot of $$$ spent. Travel, equipment,etc.....

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by GDSOB
I don't think its a recent phenomenon. Ride buyers have existed in all forms of motorsport forever. Anyone remember Marty Robbins?

If you have REAL talent, you'll get noticed by teams that will pay to win. Kimi had less than 20 races in cars when he went F1. There's a big difference between good and exceptional talent- ie: the Schumacher brothers.

Not going to get into an argument about it but exceptional talent is a driver like: JP Fangio, Jimmy Clark, Jacky Stuart, Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost and Nikki Lauda. These guys did it without traction control, automatic gearboxes and computers. No radios, they used a message board and drove the race using their heads and gut feelings... and won. I know Nikki Lauda personally and to see what he did after his crash then the fire, its just little short of unbelieveable. Last rites were given to him after the crash, but 6 weeks later, he was back in a F1 car and ready to race....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niki_Lauda

Ayrton Senna wiped the floor with Schumacher at almost every race until he was killed in 1994, then the German had little or no competition for much of the time. Yes, he is a good driver but he has a lot of things helping him that earlier drivers did not have and an unbeatable care most of the time. Its taken him 12 years to beat Senna's record, and for at least 4 of these years it the car was a big part in winning the race, and not just the driver.

Senna went up to Schumacher after a drive where the German did something stupid to him on the track and Senna grabbed him by the throat and had a "come to Jesus" talk with him about proper procedures on a F1 track. It worked...

If you want to talk about real talent, google " Tazio Nuvolari" He was a man among men and one of the toughest there ever was in a Formula car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazio_Nuvolari

Its fun to watch the F1 "circus" these days but with all the drivers aids its nothing like Spa or the 'ring in the wet in the '60's, '70's and '80's.

Damm, am getting too old!

[nostatic]

I'll agree to a point Joe, but my guess is that Kimi could drive without all the toys...he's the real deal. In Japan last year he went DFL to win...no easy trick.

But this is always the case, right? Comparing the stars today with the stars of yesterday. Could Musial hit .400 today? Would Bonds hit home runs off of Rube Waddell, Bob Feller, or Satchel Paige?

[Tervuren]

Jo, at my age - all I have to go by is Video footage of those drivers. They where not perfect drivers at all. In fact, the modern crop could probably put in a lot faster time in those cars - the hing is - those driver's listed where willing to go beyond what any other of their time was willing to do. Today, the tracks are safer, cars are safer, so the driver's psh closer to the limit as a whole - a lot less distinction, but it doesn't mean there is less "talent". I find "talent" a realy weird word to use here. What those driver's mentioned had, was recognition that they could die - an doing it anyway. Other's backed off.

[artplumber]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Ayrton Senna wiped the floor with Schumacher at almost every race until he was killed in 1994, then the German had little or no competition for much of the time.

Couple of notes, Schumacher wasn't in a very good car at the start of their rivalry, but I still think that Aryton was unbelievably fast, and could have beaten Schu in similar cars. Aryton was almost crazy fast, but not quite as crazy as Gilles Villeneuve!

The other thing is that while Schu is better than most, he does do things like block/try to take folks out when he is being passed. Remember that one race in Asia when he spun doing that and took himself out of the race?

Nostatic: Is that juiced Barry, or not juiced Barry?

[artplumber]

Originally posted by Tervuren
Jo, at my age - all I have to go by is Video footage of those drivers. They where not perfect drivers at all. In fact, the modern crop could probably put in a lot faster time in those cars - the hing is - those driver's listed where willing to go beyond what any other of their time was willing to do. Today, the tracks are safer, cars are safer, so the driver's psh closer to the limit as a whole - a lot less distinction, but it doesn't mean there is less "talent".

Err, I'll let Joe go to town on this one. While some current drivers are good, like Kimi, Alonso, most of them depend on drivers aids to get them that close to the edge (and they still screw up). There is no longer a real Drivers Championship because so many things are no longer dependant on the driver. Teruven, think about riding on the knife-edge of traction while shifting gears, changing mixtures, steering around a course where others are trying to pass and you're experiencing G-loads of >2. Do you really think you'd never miss a shift, or get in the gas to much or whatever for 2-2.5hrs? BTW IMHO, the lack of manual shifting is one of the major reasons for lack of passing in the current format.

[Noah930]

Nigel Mansell had fairly humble beginnings, for one. So it's not impossible to be a blue-collar type of guy and be successful. Still, it's a lot easier when you've got money. But regardless of how you get to F1, the (championship) winners are always fast guys.

[DaveE]

When Schumacher surpassed Senna's record he was asked how it felt and he said it had little meaning because of Senna's tragic death, that he would have won many more if not for the accident. Schumacher's first championship came in a car (Benneton) that was not the class of the field and his victories with Ferrari have alot to do with his input in car design and setup. Many don't like him but his achievements should not be slighted.

[Dottore]

Originally posted by DaveE
Many don't like him but his achievements should not be slighted.

Amen. The man is a stunningly gifted and consistent driver. To suggest otherwise is just plain silly in view of his record.

Was Senna the better driver? He was certainly more mercurical than Schumi - but that is not what wins championships. The consistency, discipline and raw talent of Schumi has been a combination that no other driver has matched - and it is this combination that has put him into the record books.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by Dottore
Amen. The man is a stunningly gifted and consistent driver. To suggest otherwise is just plain silly in view of his record.

Was Senna the better driver? He was certainly more mercurical than Schumi - but that is not what wins championships. The consistency, discipline and raw talent of Schumi has been a combination that no other driver has matched - and it is this combination that has put him into the record books.

They kept comparing MS and Alonso's driving style during the Speed broadcast of the San Marino GP. My brother was so impressed that Alonso could get on the gas so much sooner than MS. What he failed to notice was the traction control working overtime in the Renualt and barely blipping in the Ferrari, MS is driving with his right foot. While it may not matter now, in 2008 when the traction control is gone it will make a huge difference.

I spoke with some of the "pro's" at the Mazda Rev-it-up events. Some claimed a last name goes a long way and opens more doors. The ones with the Rahal, Andretti and Fittipaldi last names didn't think so.

One guy who was in the Skip Barber Series and was not a big name nor was he super wealthy. He happened to look over a techs shoulder and saw the car telemetry. It showed 2 cars side by side, according to him the "big name" guys car accelerated at a better pace than the "no name" guys car. The tech was very agitated and cleared the screen in a hurry when he noticed the guy looking at the screen.

He said it only confirmed what he was seeing on the track, he was getting walked in the straights and he knew the good names were getting the faster cars.

[}{arlequin]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro

He said it only confirmed what he was seeing on the track, he was getting walked in the straights and he knew the good names were getting the faster cars.

wow!.... cheating.in motorsport?? never!! LOL

i also think that senna/prost/gvillneuve/lauda have more talent, but i'm not certain that it will be as apparent in modern cars.

the older generations had an actual shifter instead of a button/paddle. some even had 3 pedals, and not just the one for the rear brakes for faux traction control.

throwing the contemporary drivers into the older machines will probably not yield the best laptimes and vice versa. may be entertaining as hell to watch though....

ideally, there should be zero drivers' aids. the battle should be among drivers, not computer programmers

that being said, kimi kicks it up a notch

[David]

Being a racer I'm always amazed when people in similar cars blame lack of hp for losing to someone else. If you're a better driver, you should beat someone with 10% more power.

I think now the F1 cars are very similar between teammates so you can see how good most of these drivers are. They're within a few tenths of each other in the same car, with the exception of Ide who shouldn't even be there. If someone was buying their ride, it would be pretty obvious, like Ide.