Confirmed: V Plame was working on Iran nukes when outed - Page 2

Mulhollanddose · 05-02-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RoninLB
don't know

Me neither...seems that investigation went the way of the ChiCom Military Clinton fundraising...Had I the choice, if I were the Clinton regime, between being investigated for sexual harassment and being investigated for treason, I certainly would have opted for sexual harassment.

Joeaksa · 05-02-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nostatic
Impossible. No politician that rises to the national level can be honest. They are all POSs with an agenda designed to pay back whoever helped them get there.

Have to pretty much agree with this. Both parties are this way.

That said, I would have to say that my gut feeling is that Bush is more of a honest and moral man than Clinton. Course being married to lesbo Hillary would make most men look outside the marrige for sex so he might deserve a Mulligan on some of what he did...

Jim Richards · 05-03-2006, 04:07 AM

outting CIA agents is the topic, you guys are OT^2. is this the precident you want the administration to set? do you care about the brave Americans that risk their lives to enable our gov't to know what's going on in the world and what dangers are on the horizon? you should all be outraged. someone (may be multiple people) in the administration need to hang for this. Clinton, B2, whoever...anyone doing this for political gain is the lowest form of scum on this earth.

lendaddy · 05-03-2006, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Richards
outting CIA agents is the topic, you guys are OT^2. is this the precident you want the administration to set? do you care about the brave Americans that risk their lives to enable our gov't to know what's going on in the world and what dangers are on the horizon? you should all be outraged. someone (may be multiple people) in the administration need to hang for this. Clinton, B2, whoever...anyone doing this for political gain is the lowest form of scum on this earth.

Jim,

You assume the worst. There is a reason no one(including Libby who admitted it) has been charged with outing a covert agent. Why do you think that is?

Jim Richards · 05-03-2006, 05:06 AM

len, it happened. was it Clinton?

Rodeo · 05-03-2006, 05:08 AM

Bush apologists will condone anything the president does, including playing fast and loose with national security for political purposes. They are as shameless as they are clueless.

This president has mobilized the most ignorant, un-American, un-informed people in the country as his "base," and they are in full force on this thread.

Nul is the poster boy for the 32 percenters, but the rest of you clowns that follow this facisist fool are just as bad.

I can't wait to get my country back from the idiots running it and the idiots that continue to support them.

lendaddy · 05-03-2006, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Richards
len, it happened. was it Clinton?

What happened? It's not a crime to note that someone is an employee of the CIA, only if covert. This is what Libby and his lawyers will attempt to show.......that there was no crime. The fact that Fitz has not even charged a man who admitted the act is quite a hint I'de say.

lendaddy · 05-03-2006, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
Bush apologists will condone anything the president does, including playing fast and loose with national security for political purposes. They are as shameless as they are clueless.

This president has mobilized the most ignorant, un-American, un-informed people in the country as his "base," and they are in full force on this thread.

Nul is the poster boy for the 32 percenters, but the rest of you clowns that follow this facisist fool are just as bad.

I can't wait to get my country back from the idiots running it and the idiots that continue to support them.

Oh you're just trying to butter me up.

Rodeo · 05-03-2006, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
What happened? It's not a crime to note that someone is an employee of the CIA, only if covert. This is what Libby and his lawyers will attempt to show.......that there was no crime. The fact that Fitz has not even charged a man who admitted the act is quite a hint I'de say.

You deserve an honorable mention, bushdaddy.

There is not a shread of evidence that Plame was anything but covert. That's why THE CIA CALLED FOR AN INVESTIGATION, remember? Someone outed a covert agent.

We now know it was the president's top advisor and the vice president's chief of staff.

Here's your salute, bushdaddy:

This president has mobilized the most ignorant, un-American, un-informed people in the country as his "base," and they are in full force on this thread.

lendaddy · 05-03-2006, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
You deserve an honorable mention, bushdaddy.

There is not a shread of evidence that Plame was anything but covert. That's why THE CIA CALLED FOR AN INVESTIGATION, remember? Someone outed a covert agent.

Right........and the reason Libby has not been charged with that???????.......................

Joeaksa · 05-03-2006, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Richards
outting CIA agents is the topic, you guys are OT^2. is this the precident you want the administration to set? do you care about the brave Americans that risk their lives to enable our gov't to know what's going on in the world and what dangers are on the horizon? you should all be outraged. someone (may be multiple people) in the administration need to hang for this. Clinton, B2, whoever...anyone doing this for political gain is the lowest form of scum on this earth.

Many of you guys assume that Plame was in "deep cover" which she was not. While it was not known everywhere that she was working for the Brewster Jennings, aka.. the Company, all of her neighbours and most of her friends knew who she worked for and what she did.

Thats been proven, so lets stop acting like she was 006.5 and that no one knew what she did before this happened. Also, why does no one even mention the fact that she told her boyfriend, Joe Wilson that she was a spook while they were dating even though he had no "need to know?" She seems to want all her friends and neighbours to know that she is a spook but gets her panties twisted when it comes out from someone else.

As well, in the early 1990's she listed her address in the open to everyone as "The American Embassy, APO NY" which went directly to the Embassy in Athens where she was working as a spook. Someone who is trying to stay undercover just does not do this as the people on the other side pick up things like this.

If this not enough, she was actually "outed" years before, by the Soviet spy Aldrich Ames. He gave the names of hundreds of Company personel to the Russians, hers among them and she was recalled from her overseas post because of this. She was doing work for the Company but not NOC (deep cover) or any where that a good PI could not find out in a few hours investigation.

Do totally agree that outing anyone is not correct and it does not matter who or where it comes from. Problem is that when the person themselves cannot shut their mouth about who they work for or what they do, then they are their worst enemy. As well they then endanger the others they work with who are under deep cover. Not a good situation all around.

Jim Richards · 05-03-2006, 05:26 AM

Some people get spoon-fed propaganda from the criminal Rush Limbaugh. Here's another perspective...

NY Times omitted Plame neighbors' statements that they didn't know she worked for CIA; Drudge regurgitated baseless report that they did
In an October 26 article about the investigation into the alleged leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity, The New York Times reported that FBI agents questioned Plame's neighbors in an effort "to determine whether it was commonly known that she was a C.I.A. officer." But unlike The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, the Associated Press, and Reuters, New York Times reporters Richard W. Stevenson and Anne E. Kornblut did not report that Plame's neighbors told investigators that they had not known before syndicated columnist Robert D. Novak's July 14, 2003, column that Plame worked for the CIA. The New York Times' omission is particularly odd, given that the newspaper ran an article July 5 devoted to the very question of the extent to which Plame's affiliation with the CIA had been known.

Also on October 26, the Drudge Report quoted from a three-month-old Washington Times article to baselessly suggest that "[m]ost of her [Plame's] neighbors and friends knew that she was a CIA employee." As Media Matters for America noted at the time, the article mentioned only one of Plame's neighbors by name: David Tillotson, who told The Washington Times that he "absolutely didn't know" Plame worked for the CIA. Instead, the Washington Times article relied upon the word of Fred Rustmann, a former CIA agent who had left the agency in 1990, had supervised Plame for a year early in her career, and was not her neighbor.

From the October 26 New York Times article by Richard W. Stevenson and Anne E. Kornblut:

In a sign that the prosecutor is continuing to build a case that Ms. Wilson's covert status was ended when she was named in Mr. Novak's column, F.B.I. agents questioned neighbors of the Wilsons in northwest Washington in the last few days, seeking to determine whether it was commonly known that she was a C.I.A. officer, a person involved in the case said. Ms. Wilson was identified in Mr. Novak's column by her maiden name, Valerie Plame.

As the Los Angeles Times noted in its October 26 article, "Critics of the leak investigation have said it was an open secret that Plame worked for the CIA." But the Los Angeles Times added that "neighbors contacted by The Times said they told the FBI agents that they had no idea of her agency life":

The agents "made it clear they were part of the Fitzgerald investigation, and they were basically tying up loose ends," said David Tillotson, a lawyer and neighbor who was among those interviewed Monday.

"They really only had one interest, and that was to know whether Valerie's identity, on what she did for a living, was known prior to the Novak article. It seemed they were trying to establish clearly that prior to the Novak article she was not widely known on the cocktail circuit," Tillotson said.

"And I pointed out, we were good friends, we socialized with them, and we just had no idea" until her status was made public in the Novak column, Tillotson said. "To that moment, we had no idea whatsoever that Valerie did anything for the government."

[...]

Some neighbors said they had been interviewed before by the FBI.

"They basically asked me if I knew what she did prior to the leak," said Marc Lefkowitz, another neighbor. The answer, he said, was an unambiguous no.

Similarly, The Washington Post reported on October 26 that Lefkowitz and Tillotson "said they told two FBI agents they had no clue that Plame, whom they knew by her married name, Valerie Wilson, worked for the agency until Novak's column appeared."

Reuters reported on October 26 that when asked by FBI agents if he knew about Plame's CIA work before Novak revealed it in his column, Lefkowitz responded, "I didn't know." And in its October 26 account, the AP reported that Tillotson said he was asked by the FBI: "Did we know anything about her position before the story broke?" He responded, "Absolutely not."

The New York Times' Scott Shane had spoken to Tillotson more than three months ago, for the July 5 article. Shane quoted Tillotson as saying, "Before this whole affair, no one would ever have thought of her as an undercover agent." That New York Times article also quoted another of Wilson's neighbors, Christopher Wolf, who described his reaction to reading in Novak's column that Plame worked for the CIA: "I said: 'This is amazing! I had no idea.' "

The New York Times' October 26 omission comes as conservative media figures such as Rush Limbaugh are insisting that Plame's identity as a CIA operative "was known by everybody before all this anyway."

Joeaksa · 05-03-2006, 05:37 AM

Plame's identity, if truly a secret, was thinly veiled

By John Crewdson
Tribune senior correspondent
Published March 11, 2006, 12:33 PM CST

WASHINGTON -- The question of whether Valerie Plame's employment by the Central Intelligence Agency was a secret is the key issue in the two-year investigation to determine if someone broke the law by leaking her CIA affiliation to the news media.

Federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald contends that Plame's friends "had no idea she had another life." But Plame's secret life could be easily penetrated with the right computer sleuthing and an understanding of how the CIA's covert employees work.

When the Tribune searched for Plame on an Internet service that sells public information about private individuals to its subscribers, it got a report of more than 7,600 words. Included was the fact that in the early 1990s her address was "AMERICAN EMBASSY ATHENS ST, APO NEW YORK NY 09255."

A former senior American diplomat in Athens, who remembers Plame as "pleasant, very well-read, bright," said he had been aware that Plame, who was posing as a junior consular officer, really worked for the CIA.

According to CIA veterans, U.S. intelligence officers working in American embassies under "diplomatic cover" are almost invariably known to friendly and opposition intelligence services alike.

"If you were in an embassy," said a former CIA officer who posed as a U.S. diplomat in several countries, "you could count 100 percent on the Soviets knowing."

Plame's true function likely would have been known to friendly intelligence agencies as well. The former senior diplomat recalled, for example, that she served as one of the "control officers" coordinating the visit of President George H.W. Bush to Greece and Turkey in July 1991.

After the completion of her Athens tour, the CIA reportedly sent Plame to study in Europe. According to her husband, former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson, Plame was living in Brussels when the couple first met in 1997.

Two years later, when Plame made a $1,000 contribution to Vice President Al Gore, she listed her employer as Brewster-Jennings & Associates, a Boston company apparently set up by the CIA to provide "commercial cover" for some of its operatives.

Brewster-Jennings was not a terribly convincing cover. According to Dun & Bradstreet, the company, created in 1994, is a "legal services office" grossing $60,000 a year and headed by a chief executive named Victor Brewster. Commercial databases accessible by the Tribune contain no indication that such a person exists.

Another sign of Brewster-Jennings' link to the CIA came from the online résumé of a Washington attorney, who until last week claimed to have been employed by Brewster-Jennings as an "engineering consultant" from 1985 to 1989 and to have served from 1989 to 1995 as a CIA "case officer," the agency's term for field operatives who collect information from paid informants.

On Wednesday the Tribune left a voice mail and two e-mail messages asking about the juxtaposition of the attorney's career with Brewster-Jennings and the CIA. On Thursday, the Brewster-Jennings and CIA entries had disappeared from the online résumé. The attorney never returned any of the messages left by the Tribune.

CIA veterans doubt cover

After Plame left her diplomatic post and joined Brewster-Jennings, she became what is known in CIA parlance as an "NOC," shorthand for an intelligence officer working under "non-official cover." But several CIA veterans questioned how someone with an embassy background could have successfully passed herself off as a private-sector consultant with no government connections.

Genuine NOCs, a CIA veteran said, "never use an official address. If she had [a diplomatic] address, her whole cover's completely phony. I used to run NOCs. I was in an embassy. I'd go out and meet them, clandestine meetings. I'd pay them cash to run assets or take trips. I'd give them a big bundle of cash. But they could never use an embassy address, ever."

Another CIA veteran with 20 years of service agreed that "the key is the [embassy] address. That is completely unacceptable for an NOC. She wasn't an NOC, period."

After Plame was transferred back to CIA headquarters in the mid-1990s, she continued to pass herself off as a private energy consultant. But the first CIA veteran noted: "You never let a true NOC go into an official facility. You don't drive into headquarters with your car, ever."

A senior U.S. intelligence official, who like the others quoted in this article spoke on condition of anonymity, noted that Plame "may not be alone in that category, so I don't want to suggest she was the only one. But it would be a fair assumption that a true-blue NOC is not someone who has a headquarters job at any point or an embassy job at any point."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-060311plame-story,1,2504459.story?page=1&ctrack=1&cset=true&coll=chi-news-hed

Jim Richards · 05-03-2006, 05:42 AM

I see we're down to dueling news reports. We can go on and on. It was a politcal move to release her name to discredit her husband. Can you imagine what this makes other agents think? Would you like to be in their shoes? Anyway, I guess it's time to see who goes to jail.

lendaddy · 05-03-2006, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Richards
I see we're down to dueling news reports. We can go on and on. It was a politcal move to release her name to discredit her husband. Can you imagine what this makes other agents think? Would you like to be in their shoes? Anyway, I guess it's time to see who goes to jail.

What is the political move in releasing her name? To make her richand famous? No, that part was an obvious mistake. Either Libby thought it was common knowledge or that she wasn't covert (did I mention no one has been charged with that crime?). But there is no "angle" to outting her.

Rodeo · 05-03-2006, 05:52 AM

Don't bother.

Remember, the Bush fascists are concerned with one thing, and one thing only. George Bush.

The country, whether it's national security, the budget, energy policy, or anything else critical to the national interest, can go to he!! as far as they are concerned.

Time for Nul to tell me what a traitor I am for not supporting the traitorous administration.

lendaddy · 05-03-2006, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
Don't bother.

Remember, the Bush fascists are concerned with one thing, and one thing only. George Bush.

The country, whether it's national security, the budget, energy policy, or anything else critical to the national interest, can go to he!! as far as they are concerned.

Time for Nul to tell me what a traitor I am for not supporting the traitorous administration.

I told you before that I'm immune to your silver tongue.

Rodeo · 05-03-2006, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
But there is no "angle" to outting her.

And there's no gray matter between your ears.

lendaddy · 05-03-2006, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
And there's no gray matter between your ears.

Stop it! [blushing]

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Well, you'll all breathe more easily soon. Sen. Lautenberg wrote a letter to DCI Goss yesterday (made public on my company's website), asking for a report on Plame's covert status at certain times. Assuming Goss replies, this should clear things up. Though I suspect nothing will be good enough for some folks.